The power and pitfalls of omics part 2: epigenomics, transcriptomics and ME/CFS
Simon McGrath concludes his blog about the remarkable Prof George Davey Smith's smart ideas for understanding diseases, which may soon be applied to ME/CFS.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Best Meds for Deep Sleep

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by acrosstheveil, Sep 4, 2014.

  1. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

    Messages:
    314
    Likes:
    107
    I would like to get a medication I can take at night to induce deep sleep. Here are a few things I have tried recently:

    • gabapentin-didn't work well. INSANE side effects. gave me panic attacks for the first time in ten years even after one dose
    • mirtazapine- awesome for sleep. VERy potent but way too long of half life. I could sleep for days on this stuff
    • ambien - took in many years ago and stopped working after a while. Very addictive and could not sleep with or without it after being on in a while
    • lunesta- same story as ambien
    • trazadone- took some of this but feels very toxic. sleep does not feel refreshing
    • benadryl - take it all the time for allergies so it doesn't make me too tired. not refreshing sleep
    • hydroxyzine- same as benadryl
    • melatonin, taurine, magnesium, l-theanine, gaba - they help a bit but I need something more powerful
    • clonazepam - was on this years ago and had withdrawal lasted for months if not years. Don't like the idea of starting it again.
    I'm sure i'm forgetting a few...

    so what other options do I have for inducing deep sleep?
     
  2. *GG*

    *GG* Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,112
    Likes:
    4,694
    Concord, NH
    I used to take Trazadone quit working for me, and did not wake up feeling as refreshed as I do with Mirtazapine (Remeron). Not sure what the smallest dosage is, the lowest I usually get is 15mg, and it's scored so you can split it and get about 7.5 mg, so this is to high a dosage for you? I once tried Doxepin, but that did not work for me at all, seems like we are similar :)

    GG
     
  3. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,271
    Likes:
    5,317
    I was having good luck with a large dose of magnesium glycinate and 3 grams of glycine for a while but it doesn't seem to be working as well anymore. Obviously nowhere near as strong as the stuff you've already tried but it's extremely safe at least.
     
  4. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

    Messages:
    314
    Likes:
    107
    i'm thinking about asking for restoril. I know its a benzo and very addictive...but I don't know what else to ask for. I would only be taking it 3x/week max ( i work part-time..3 days, so I would use them night before work so I can have refreshing sleep)
     
  5. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

    Messages:
    314
    Likes:
    107
    i've been taking magenesium glycinate for years. Doesn't really make me sleepy anymore but I can tell when I haven't taken it.
     
  6. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,271
    Likes:
    5,317
    Have you tried straight glycine though?
     
  7. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

    Messages:
    314
    Likes:
    107
  8. Valentijn

    Valentijn WE ARE KINA

    Messages:
    14,280
    Likes:
    45,787
    If sleep problems are due to excessive glutamate, then cysteine or glycine or both can be helpful. If glycine or cysteine helped for a while and then stopped, I'd try adding in the other to see if it makes a difference.
     
  9. zzz

    zzz Senior Member

    Messages:
    569
    Likes:
    2,524
    Oregon
    Sounds a lot like me. I found that response to supplemental magnesium was minimal, though. However, magnesium by injection or nebulizer (I use nebulizer) is incredibly powerful and safe, and most people tolerate it well. I've been using it for six months, and I've been getting the best nights' sleep I've had in years. It also works as well now as it did when I started it six months ago. Parenteral magnesium also has a lot of other benefits for ME/CFS (such as relieving muscle pains, ameliorating cardiac problems and dyspnea, etc.), and this is why I originally started it. The great night's sleep just turned out to be a side benefit.

    Here's Dr. Cheney's formulation for magnesium injections:
    As for Remeron...
    With Remeron, it's important to know that it has the unusual property that its effect as a sleeping pill is inversely proportional to the dose. So if you want the strongest effect for sleep, you should take 7.5 mg at bed time. If you want less effect, take 15 mg. The reason it has this unusual property is that part of Remeron's effect is to block the H(1) receptors, so they induce sleepiness in a way similar to that of antihistamines. However, Remeron also causes the release of norepinephrine, a stimulant, and this effect increases more rapidly with dose than the effect of blocking the H(1) receptors.
    If you've already had trouble getting off clonazepam ("had withdrawal lasted for months if not years"), I think it would be a good idea to stay away from the benzodiazepines. They have this nasty habit of being more difficult to come off each time you try. Part of the reason for this is that when taken for long periods, they start to cause the GABA receptors to invert into the inside of the nerve, and with these GABA receptors missing, you get the typical withdrawal symptoms. These GABA receptors can eventually regrow, but it can take years. Although you may be symptom free from the clonazepam, that just means that most of your GABA receptors have recovered. If left alone, the others will eventually, too. But if you start another benzodiazepine, you've already got a head start on the whole addiction process, even though you may feel normal.
     
  10. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

    Messages:
    858
    Likes:
    1,079
    I've had lifelong problems with delayed phase sleep disorder and I've gotten dramatic results, over the last month, using low dose melatonin.

    I've tried melatonin numerous times over the years but it wasn't until trying low doses that it finally started working for me.

    I use 250-300mcg of the liquid form.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2014
    ghosalb likes this.
  11. adreno

    adreno PR activist

    Messages:
    4,843
    Likes:
    11,001
    Low dose Doxepin or Amitriptyline.
     
  12. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,947
    Likes:
    1,690
    Florida
    I use a combo of melatonin, 5htp and klonopin (for nocturnal myoclonus). Theanine can be substituted for Klonopin if k is being used to treat anxiety. For me Theanine wasn't effective for nocturnal myoclonus tho.

    Dosages were 1-9 mg mel, 100-300 mg 5htp and 100-300 mg theanine or .125 mg klonopin from 2007(?) Until about a year ago. Now minimal doses, .1-.2 mg mel, 10 mg 5htp and .06 klono work as well and don't leave me feeling sleepy the next day. I increase these on the occasional rough nite.

    Natural factors makes a combo sleep supplement (Tranquil sleep) with mel, 5htp and theanine but their doses weren't good for me. Their 5htp is the only one I found that works for me tho.

    Tc .. x
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2014
  13. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

    Messages:
    511
    Likes:
    966
    Colorado
    Medical cannabis has me sleeping the best I have slept in 30 years. That has greatly improved the quality of my life.
     
    consuegra likes this.
  14. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,276
    Likes:
    5,992
    Midwest USA
    Be careful with the Natural Factors chewables...they have SO MUCH sugar!

    Who wants 3-4 g of carbs from a supplement??

    There is a list of possible sleep aids from Dr Teitelbaum in my post in this thread:

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...udy-and-other-test-results.23450/#post-358673
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2014
  15. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,947
    Likes:
    1,690
    Florida
    The one I was talking about is called Tranquil sleep. It contains theanine, melatonin and 5htp. It's not a chewable.

    Tc .. x
     
  16. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,276
    Likes:
    5,992
    Midwest USA
    Actually, it comes as both a chewable and a tablet which is why I posted the caveat. :)
     
  17. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,947
    Likes:
    1,690
    Florida
    Good to know. I never saw the chewable form but I never bought Tranquil Sleep either. I was already using the ingredients and knew I needed different doses of each ingredient so I continued to buy these separately.

    I only mentioned it because the info provided by NF about the ingredients was interesting.

    Tc .. x
     
  18. fibrodude84

    fibrodude84 Senior Member

    Messages:
    190
    Likes:
    114
    I was interested in trying low dose melatonin but they caution people with autoimmune issues. I have crohns and me/cfs may also be an immune disorder.
     
  19. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,342
    Likes:
    1,178
    Ventura, CA
    also try things like light and dark therapy, especially with bright lights, cell phones, and computer screens a few hours before bed. F.lux is a great way to get a yellow screen so it doesn't trick your brain into thinking its day time. Sleep in a dark room with nothing plugged in, no bright light getting in while sleeping if you sleep late into the morning. meditation, or diaphragm breathing exercises while lying down or before going to sleep. Do not eat heavy meals right before bed either.
     
  20. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

    Messages:
    314
    Likes:
    107
    well i was prescribed trazodone after my appointment on wednesday but it made me feel super toxic so I sent my doctor an email for something else. He gave me restoril which I am very hesitant to use. I have all these meds at my disposal but I am so scared of benzos I'm not sure if I even want to take them.

    And iquitos, I would love to use medical cannabis and I would even move if that was a viable option for me. I used it illegally for over seven years until I got some contaminated with toxic mold and now I go into anaphylactic shock when I am around it. :( Had to regretfully add it to my long list of allergies....and it appears to be one of the most serious.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page