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BBC Radio 4: The Life Scientific with Simon Wessely, 14th Feb 2017

Large Donner

Senior Member
Messages
866
Wessely has been on TV this week pushing the usual line of, "Theresa Mays more attention for mental health just isn't enough, we need more money".

Its called Problem Reaction Solution, It is a propaganda strategy designed to make the public think there is a crisis in something and to demand "something needs to be done about it". Quite often the people who seem to be criticising the policy makers from the outside are actually on the same side and are playing good cop bad cop.

Its basically a strategy of Governance by "consent".

This strategy has worked very well in terror porn in the last decade and a half. It has become so Orwellian in memes like, "we need to give up some of our liberties to protect our freedoms!"

The establishment cannot very well just wake up one morning and announce "we will be diagnosing more of you people as mentally ill soon", so they have to make you think you want it, but first they must get everyone to agree to "destigmatise it".

There may well be shortcomings in what we refer to as "mental health" but beware of the meme that there is a crisis that needs resolving which will basically put more power and money into the hands of establishment figures like Wessely with the obvious intention of "identifying and diagnosing" more people with "mental health" problems.

Imagine the disaster that is going to be in hands the BPS school in times of the austerity myth and the portraying of decent and criticism of the establishment as extremism.

This is all being done via a socialist health care system which many believe is slowly being infiltrated by the worst side of private healthcare philosophy. Take the worst parts of both systems, combine them and you have a disaster.
 
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Barry53

Senior Member
Messages
2,391
Location
UK
@Large Donner I suspect it is also a major diversionary tactic. Make lots of noise arguing for something that all reasonable folk will agree with, and everyone then thinks "what a decent sensible fellow, all that other stuff he says must also be right". It is a much-used deception strategy, by deceitful people the world over.
 

Large Donner

Senior Member
Messages
866
@Large Donner I suspect it is also a major diversionary tactic. Make lots of noise arguing for something that all reasonable folk will agree with

The problem is that most people don't examine a basic premise to see if the claim being made is even true if it sounds like its going to help people.

If someone stands up and says x amount of people go undiagnosed with a mental illness therefore we need more money and more training for doctors etc the basic premise is the x. If that is fundamentally flawed as a statistic mainly due to the definition of mental illness being used, the rest is proof that mathematics can "prove" anything and natural observations are a skill that the general public has long lost.
 
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trishrhymes

Senior Member
Messages
2,158
From what I gather there is a crisis in mental health care in the UK with particularly a shortage of inpatient beds for people in crisis, and professional support in the community for those with severe mental health disorders.

It is therefore scandalous that clinical commissioning groups are being persuaded to spend this scarce mental health funding on CBT and other unfounded therapies for those with so called medically unexplained symptoms, especially ME/CFS, FM and IBS.

By wrongly classifying these as mental disorders, people like Wessely are diverting funding away from those with real and serious psychiatric disorders who genuinely need better funded psychiatric care.
 

Molly98

Senior Member
Messages
576
From what I gather there is a crisis in mental health care in the UK with particularly a shortage of inpatient beds for people in crisis, and professional support in the community for those with severe mental health disorders.
It is therefore scandalous that clinical commissioning groups are being persuaded to spend this scarce mental health funding on CBT and other unfounded therapies for those with so called medically unexplained symptoms, especially ME/CFS, FM and IBS.

By wrongly classifying these as mental disorders, people like Wessely are diverting funding away from those with real and serious psychiatric disorders who genuinely need better funded psychiatric care.

Couldn't agree more Trish
The situation is even worse in Child and Adolescent mental health.
The situation is critical, families can not get the support they need for their children, waiting lists are ridiculous, when I was working in this area, a child literally had to be suicidal or a real danger to others before they would be seen, most families had no chance, so the childs mental health condition would deteriorate and deteriorate and become more and more distressing both for themselves and parents until the situation became critical and then more often than not it would require child protection intervention. And yet they give CBT and GET to children with ME and waste a million or more on Crawley's FITBIT trial.
 

Solstice

Senior Member
Messages
641
Don't worry I know what you meant.
But I don't consider it spamming for patients to inform a journalist of the truth.

Remember Al-Khalili probably has no idea of protocol changes, redefining recovery, or peer reviewed academic papers debunking the PACE trial.
We have that ammo now so I think we should use it, if I was a journalist I would want to know about it.

I don't know anything about Al-Khalili but any decent journo would be only too happy to be given good material to let them ask probing questions. The more people who tell him the better.

The source shouldn't matter it's the quality of the material, how about that clip of SAS Trevor Butterworth saying the patients were right. I'm sure that would be a nice uncomfortable conversation with the winner of the SAS Maddox prize.

If we keep shying away expecting others to do our dirty work, we only have ourselves to blame.

Don't have a clue on how to do this, nor do I have the energy. But organized responses are what are required imo. If anyone hosts Simon Wessely, Peter White or any of the other career-liars, they should be met with an overwhelming response. Open letters with hundreds/thousands of signatures, or a barrage of well-documented e-mails that succinctly put our point across. I feel the time of staying silent has passed atleast.

I've been wondering about some other advocacy we could do. How do you get things up in google? F.e. wouldn't it be nice if the first thing people find when they google PACE is something about the controversy surrounding it and a piece of text outlining the biggest flaws of PACE? Same with fitnet, same with Wessely, Same with White and so on and so on?
 

Molly98

Senior Member
Messages
576
Use of a Fitbit would be far too scientific.............you wouldn't want any real measurements getting in the way of 'research'.:rolleyes:
ha ha, :lol::lol: I tried so hard not to swear my fingers were aching to type FITSHIT or SHITFIT my brain was working so hard to control my impulse to swear that I still didn't manage to get the actual name of this damn trial right. In fact with my ME brain I actually now can not remember the official name, I know its fit something. FITSHIT is just far more appropriate and easier to remember for me.
 

trishrhymes

Senior Member
Messages
2,158
FITNET is of course a cross between FITSHIT and FISHNET:

spongebob-fishnets.gif


That's a portrait of SW desperately spinning his BPS crap.
 
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Molly98

Senior Member
Messages
576
I wonder if he will be signing up for this years Strictly, would be the obvious next move in his desperate desire for media exposure, he probably thinks if Ed Balls can do it I can do it.

Or maybe I am a BPS bullshitter get me out of here.
 

Snowdrop

Rebel without a biscuit
Messages
2,933
I've been wondering about some other advocacy we could do. How do you get things up in google? F.e. wouldn't it be nice if the first thing people find when they google PACE is something about the controversy surrounding it and a piece of text outlining the biggest flaws of PACE? Same with fitnet, same with Wessely, Same with White and so on and so on?

When I Google: PACE trial ME/cfs the first thing I see is Julie Rehmeyer's STAT news piece.
 

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,231
Location
Cornwall, UK
Even "pace trial" alone (without quotations) brings up mostly sites which are critical of it. The actual paper is #5, with the authors' propaganda site being #6. Then all negative until you hit a PACE spin-off paper at #10.

PACE is officially a travesty :D
I tried "pace trial" on Everyclick, and every hit on the first page was critical except one which was a reply from the authors from 2011: http://www.kcl.ac.uk/innovation/gro...ssets/2011/Whiteetal2011ThePACETrialinCFS.pdf
 

Chrisb

Senior Member
Messages
1,051
The BBC is a wonderful organisation. Or so they keep telling us. They are today reporting that in the past year there have been 70,000 assaults on NHS staff and yet the publicity machine wishes us to believe that inchoate threats at an unspecified date against a single person are worthy of attention. One presumes that not all of these were committed by drunks on a Saturday night.
 

Sean

Senior Member
Messages
7,378
I recall a profile puff-piece on Wessely in a medical journal a decade or so back, where he said that one reason he chose psychiatry as his specialty was because he was not comfortable dealing with the physical body, or some thing to that effect.

Also, a reminder of him in full disingenuous hyperbolic flight, from 2011, a few months after PACE had been published:

http://www.meassociation.org.uk/201...fessor-simon-wessely-the-times-6-august-2011/