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Basal metabolic rate

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by notmyself, Mar 5, 2017.

  1. notmyself

    notmyself Senior Member

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    Hi, I ve read somewhere that low basal metabolic rate can lead to fatigue and stuff(also weight gain).I didin t find much information about this and ME/CFS..can a low metabolic rate be one of the reasons that cause the problems?
     
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  2. TreePerson

    TreePerson Senior Member

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    I don't know. But last year I had my metabolic rate tested as part of my contribution to the UKME biobank. And mine is high. It's about 13 years younger than my actual age. The nurse who visited said its main effect would be that I wouldn't put on weight easily. This is true. But despite this I have upper end severe ME for a very long time.
     
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  3. GreenBlanket

    GreenBlanket

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    I'm probably stating the obvious here, but of course, a low basal metabolic rate could lead (and does lead) to fatigue, but the real question is why does our metabolic rate slow down, and how can we strengthen and quicken it. My metabolic gears sometimes seem to slow down so much, that they sometimes almost seem to come to a complete standstill. I'm not kidding.
     
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  4. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    I am aware of largely unpublished research on CFS (not defined as ME) that shows low metabolic rate going back to the late 80s or early 90s. My metabolic rate was low, as was every patient.

    The issue is not if its low, but why it is low. Many things can cause low metabolic rate, including recent findings in ME involving pyruvate dehydrogenase.
     
  5. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    This is a quandary. If you have high energy and severe ME where is that energy going? You are obviously not able to use it. This suggests a derangement in energy utilization rather than production.
     
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  6. TreePerson

    TreePerson Senior Member

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    I don't know. I was surprised. She stood me on some special scales which claimed to measure my bone density, my metabolism, my body fat etc. She didn't say that it was unusual to get a reading like that. But then she was very professional and might not have felt it appropriate to comment.

    My lived experience is both things. Sometimes after resting a lot I feel I have energy which can't move through my limbs. So it literally feels like a pressure, like a bottle neck. And I have wondered about vascular auto -immune type thing. Other times in a "crash" have no energy except in my core. I feel weak empty utterly weird, compelled to lie completely still but unable to sleep etc.

    Wasn't there a recent study (like last week) to do with adrenoreceptors? Would that fit?

    I got the feeling from the nurse it was just reading - something about me pre-ME. Like my height. So my inherited metabolism is on the fast side of normal.
     
  7. notmyself

    notmyself Senior Member

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    My BMR is very high ,almost double the normal ... the doctor said it is like this because of stress and becuase i have a lot of muscle mass( from the good old healthy times )....it's the same doctor who recently diagnosticated me with cfs..i couldn t find a single article on internet about cfs/me and hypermetabolism..all i find ,and i find quite plenty of information regarding low metabolic rate and a state o hypometabolism in cfs..should i go back hoping tthat i have something else? :)))
     
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  8. TreePerson

    TreePerson Senior Member

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    Could it be that we don't make much energy but what we do make will use fast because that is how our bodies were designed from birth?
    So before my visit from the nurse I rested for several days. This was so that I would be able to do her tests give blood stand on her scales etc. I had also taken vitamin b Multi. While she was there I coped okay and the following day felt very ill again flat on my back in bed not moving feeling like the flu classic PEM.
     
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  9. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member

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    @notmyself and @TreePerson - How long have you each had ME/CFS? Research has indicated a shift in the immune system after about 3 years, I wonder if that contributes to BMR.
     
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  10. TreePerson

    TreePerson Senior Member

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    24 years this year. My brief reading on it today suggested that an overactive immune system can cause an increase in BMR. ( I am in the group of pwme who don't catch colds). Also infection can cause it. Plus some people just need more calories to keep heart lungs etc going and these people are usually thinner. I don't see why this would necessarily change with ME/CFS.

    We are all making some energy otherwise we would be dead. Just not enough to move about in anything approaching normal way.

    My experience of ME is that settings are set to high (hypersensitivity) and energy very low. Could the basal metabolic rate be same thing? I don't have any kind of science background and only realised from reading @alex3619 that most sufferers are low BMR.

    I described myself as upper end severe because I spend 90% of the time in bed and much of that lying down. But I can walk and stand for short periods so I could be considered low end moderate if that makes a difference to what would be expected BMR.
     
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  11. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member

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    @TreePerson - I've never tested my BMR, but I experience daily fluctuations in dysautonomia that have become more amplified over time (feeling cold with sustained cold hands and feet - later in the day low grade fever at about 102F)...it makes me curious about disparities between sufferers.
     
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  12. TreePerson

    TreePerson Senior Member

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    I get the cold hands and feet also feel cold and tend to have low body temperature. I also get hot and have night sweats though no actual high temperature. These were early symptoms for me and have been pretty constant.
    Disparities interest me too. I was rather surprised to learn that I had a deviation from the norm with BMR. Most of my symptoms are very standard. :)
     
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  13. notmyself

    notmyself Senior Member

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    Do you have the classic signs of ME?..like PEM?
     
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  14. TreePerson

    TreePerson Senior Member

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    Yes severe PEM is my main symptom. How about you? Are your symptoms classic?
     
  15. notmyself

    notmyself Senior Member

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    They are ,yes..except Pem..i don't have Pem..i feel bad everyday ,so maybe there is pem and i don't notice it,but from i heard pem is imposibble to miss..
     
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  16. GreenBlanket

    GreenBlanket

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    I think the whole notion of Post Exertional Malaise (PEM) might affect those of us who have been sicker longer. In my experience PEM is the result of the release of toxic substances that are stored in the body tissues after a tired system has been unable to properly clear these toxins out. Everyone, sick or not, must clear toxins out of their body. It's just part of life. When you exercise, these stored toxins get flushed out of you muscles and such, into you general circulation, where after some time, they exert their deleterious affects, and make you feel even sicker and more fatigued than you felt before. Again, I think think PEM might be more of an issue after you have had CFS for some time, allowing toxins to accumulate.
     
  17. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    I am slowly rereading Oslers Web and in it there is a report that 25% of Incline Village patients in their practice had low metabolic rate. Which means 75% didn't. Hmmm ...

    For those who have had metabolic rate testing, I wonder what tests you used. I had a metabolic breath test, requiring that every gram of food I ate be included to determine my energy intake as this can modify the test result.
     
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  18. TreePerson

    TreePerson Senior Member

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    Do you have muscle fatigue? I tend to lump that in with PEM. It was one of the first things I noticed - my muscles began to tire very quickly. They would ache twitch and just literally run out of strength. It just got progressively worse. I had been very fit before it started.
     
  19. notmyself

    notmyself Senior Member

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    I don't know what to say..it's confusing..but a high metabolic rate don't mean that the production of energy is working?..and maybe in my case is not used ,delivered properly wich can also cause so many symtoms..maybe this can explain the lack of PEM..
     
  20. GreenBlanket

    GreenBlanket

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    I actually think the whole notion of PEM is not really that important or illuminating when discussing CFS. A while back in the CFS literature, I had never really heard that term being used. I think it's fairly new?? The main thing with CFS is that you are freakin' exhausted nearly all the time. Exerting yourself beyond what's reasonable when you are already tired will of course make you even more tired, ..duh.
     

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