Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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Bartonella solutions other than antibiotics?

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by Tiger Lily 813, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. Learner1

    Learner1 Professional Patient

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    We will have to disagree.

    ETA - And your inexpensive ozone treatment in no way equates with what I've observed first hand of 10 Pass ozone and UVBI.
     
  2. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    So you mean you still think ozone is an antibiotic, even though you have not found any evidence for that, in spite of the 150 year medical history of ozone usage?
     
  3. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    You might like this thread on the ozone treatment of hepatitis C virus, where one study found that it reduces viral load.

    Of interest is the FDA quote from that thread:
    So this suggests that ozone may be reducing hepatitis C viral load by some other mechanism than a direct virucidal one.



    And there have been a few accounts of ozone therapy leading to recovery from fluoroquinolone toxicity syndrome (FTS). See here:

    Bill’s Recovery Story – Avelox Toxicity

    Ricardo’s Story – Recovery from Ciprofloxacin Toxicity

    I think the treatments were by ozone autohemotherapy, which requires a doctor to do.

    It's possible that the easy ozone application technique that I devised (see this post), which costs very little and can be done at home might be a good substitute for ozone autohemotherapy, but I am not sure.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  4. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    You may be right that my inexpensive technique may not compare to ozone major autohemotherapy (10 pass ozone is a form of that), or to UV blood irradiation; although it would be interesting to have someone who has benefited from major autohemotherapy for say Lyme disease to also try my method, and compare the results. My method is so much cheaper.

    I am rather suspicious of these private ozone therapists who charge high prices for ozone treatment, and who claim their treatment is of benefit, but do not publish their supposed good results in scientific journals.



    If you think about the way major autohemotherapy is performed, it is clear that it cannot work by an antibacterial or antiviral action. In major autohemotherapy, only around 200 ml of blood is drawn from the body and treated with ozone, before being returned to the body. But that 200 ml is just a fraction of the 5 liters of blood in the body, and an even smaller faction of the total of around 50 liters of fluid in the body.

    So even if ozone did have an antibacterial effect on the bacteria in that 200 ml of blood (which it doesn't), it's not really going to work for the bacteria found in the rest of the 50 liters of fluid in the body, because you are only treating 200 ml out of the total body fluids.

    Thus if ozone major autohemotherapy does have any benefit in viral or bacteria diseases, it would have to be by some other mechanism, like reducing reactive oxygen species, or by an immune stimulating mechanism.

    From a paper by Bocci about ozone major autohemotherapy:
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
  5. Learner1

    Learner1 Professional Patient

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    I had a lengthy discussion with my doctor, who I trust very much, as he's up on the latest research and carefully making the financial investment to bring new modalities into his clinic after speaking with exoerts, reading the research, and convincing himself there is significant therapeutic benefit to the treatment. In this case, I believe he consulted with Dr. Rowan and other members of the American Academy of Ozone Therapy.

    He said that ozone will definitely kill anaerobic organisms.
     
  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Certainly I would think there would be more chance that ozone can kill anaerobic organisms, just because these organisms do not have adequate enzymes to protect them from the damaging effects of oxygen.

    Borrelia is very nearly anaerobic (Borrelia is in fact microaerophilic, meaning it can survive at very low levels of oxygen, but is poisoned at higher levels). There was an anecdotal account of one Lyme patient curing themselves after 18 months of daily mild hyperbaric oxygen therapy in a home hyperbaric chamber. That's something I would consider trying if I had Lyme.

    This paper details the use of hyperbaric oxygen therapy for killing infections of anaerobic bacteria. Whether ozone can have any useful effect on anaerobic bacteria in the body though, I can't seem to find any info on. The problem with ozone is that the body cannot tolerate high levels, whereas the body can handle high levels of oxygen.


    However, Bartonella henselae is an aerobic bacterium, meaning it happy lives in high levels of oxygen.
     
    Sancar likes this.
  7. Learner1

    Learner1 Professional Patient

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    Right. Lyme is one of the things its used for and people have had success with it. My doctor is not a charlatan and has delved into this to be sure that it works. He waited for a colleague to use 10 pass ozone for a year first and report results before proceeding with acquiring it. I didn't ask for all of the research he evaluated as I was more focused on my own health issues during our visit, but I have no reason to doubt him.

    The body can tolerate ozone in higher levels when combined with use of antioxidants.
     
  8. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    You might try andrographis (see https://greatcape.com/blogs/lyme-wa...3-lyme-wars-episode-4-andrographis-paniculata)

    I love this herb. I don't have lyme, but I had chronic sinus infections for years, my immune system is just substandard like so many of us, and when I started taking andrographis I got much less sick and recovered much more quickly. It is part of the Buhner protocol for lyme. And it's cheap! Taking one a day keeps me relatively healthy and I increase the dose when I get sick. I also take a break maybe every 5 to 6 weeks for a week or so. This is what I take (and it is very bitter, but hey, that's good!): https://www.iherb.com/pr/Planetary-Herbals-Full-Spectrum-Andrographis-400-mg-120-Tablets/1530
     
  9. TrialAndError

    TrialAndError

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    I recently read that the Japanese drug Ivermectin (Nobel Prize winner) cures Bartonella. Sorry, I don't have the link.
     

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