1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
The Pathway to Prevention (P2P) for ME/CFS: A Dangerous Process
Gabby Klein gives an overview of the P2P process, shedding light on the pitfalls with advice as to what we can do in protest ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Bartonella and Cat Scratch Disease

Discussion in 'Phoenix Rising Articles' started by Mark, May 24, 2013.

  1. Nielk

    Nielk

    Messages:
    5,249
    Likes:
    5,192
    Queens, NY

    It's a shame that your symptoms have not improved with symptoms.
  2. Lala

    Lala Senior Member

    Messages:
    317
    Likes:
    57
    EU
    My symptoms improved with treatment but I am still not symptom free.
    snowathlete likes this.
  3. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes:
    419
    United States
    In Buhner's book, Healing Lyme, he says that Bartonella only accounts for 5% or less of the coinfections in Lyme. He must have thought it was an important issue though since he wrote an entire book about Bartonella.
    merylg and snowathlete like this.
  4. GcMAF Australia

    GcMAF Australia Senior Member

    Messages:
    660
    Likes:
    552
    From Infectolabs Australia site
    http://www.infectolab.com.au/Pages/Coinfections.aspx
    Bartonella
    Bacteria: Bartonella henselae (gram-negative, optional intracellular in endothelial cells / Erythrocytes) and/or BLO = Bartonella like organisms
    Vector/Transmission: surface wounds/scratch from cats, Ixodes ricinus
    Symptoms: (incubation period 3 – 38 days): headache (80%), fatigue (100%), muscle twitches, tremors, cramps, shivering, fever in the mornings (30%, in thrusts up to 6 weeks, otherwise 1 – 3 weeks), swollen lymph nodes, arthralgia (often), myalgia, insomnia, depression, agitation, amentia, concentration and attention disorder, dizziness, restlessness, gastritis, intestinal problems, sore feet soles (especially in the morning), hypodermic nodules along the extremities, no or minimal joint pain (important according to J.J. Burrascano)
    Severe progression: endocarditis, retinitis, epilepsy, aseptic meningitis, hepatosplenomegalia
    Risk factors: immune suppression
    Diagnostics:
    - PCR on Bartonella in blood (EDTA-blood): direct detection
    - Histology (hemangiome/lymphadenitis)
    - Antibodies on bartonella henselae-IgM and bartonella henselae-IgG: indirect detection

    - Elevated vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF), only rarely increased
    snowathlete likes this.
  5. GcMAF Australia

    GcMAF Australia Senior Member

    Messages:
    660
    Likes:
    552
    http://www.immed.org/autoimmune/autoimmun%2011.23.08/Nicolson_LabMedicine0508.pdf
    an article on bacteria and the brain etc.

    Neurodegenerative diseases are chronic degenerative diseases of the central nervous system (CNS) that cause dementia. For the most part, the causes of these brain diseases remain largely
    unknown.1 They are characterized by molecular and genetic changes in nerve cells that result in nerve cell degeneration and ultimately nerve dysfunction and death, resulting in neurological
    signs and symptoms and dementia. In addition to neurodegenerative diseases, there are also neurobehavioral diseases that mainly, but not exclusively, appear in the young, such as autistic
    spectrum disorders (ASD) that encompass autism, attention deficit disorder, Asperger’s syndrome, and other disorders. There appear to be genetic links to neurodegenerative and
    neurobehavioral diseases, but the genetic changes that occur and the changes in gene expression that have been found in these diseases are complex and not directly related to simple genetic alterations. In addition, it is thought that nutritional deficiencies,
    environmental toxins, heavy metals, chronic bacterial and viral infections, autoimmune immunological responses, vascular diseases, head trauma and accumulation of fluid in the brain,
    changes in neurotransmitter concentrations, among others, are involved in the pathogenesis of various neurodegenerative and neurobehavioral diseases. One of the biochemical changes found in essentially all neurological, neurodegenerative, and neurobehavioral diseases is the overexpression of oxidative free radical compounds (oxidative stress) that cause lipid, protein, and genetic structural changes.

    Oxidative stress can be caused by a variety of environmental toxic insults, and when combined with genetic factors, pathogenic processes could result. An attractive hypothesis for the
    causation or promotion of neurological disease involves chronic bacterial or viral toxic products, which result in the presence of excess reactive oxygen species and culminate in pathologic
    changes. Infectious agents may enter the CNS within infected migratory macrophages, they may gain access by transcytosis across the blood-brain barrier, or enter by intraneuronal transfer from peripheral nerves. Cell-wall-deficient bacteria, principally species
    of Chlamydia (Chlamydophila), Borrelia, Brucella (among others), bacteria without cell walls, such as Mycoplasma species, and various viruses are candidate infectious agents that may
    play important roles in neurodegenerative and neurobehavoral diseases. Since they are usually systemic, such infections can affect the immune system and other organ systems, resulting in
    a variety of systemic signs and symptoms.
    snowathlete likes this.
  6. GcMAF Australia

    GcMAF Australia Senior Member

    Messages:
    660
    Likes:
    552
    it is evident that one can get both bacterial and viral infections at the same time.
    snowathlete likes this.
  7. Ecoclimber

    Ecoclimber Senior Member

    Messages:
    640
    Likes:
    1,081
    Mercer Island Wa
    I did another posting on this from a research center which specializes in Bartonella and has a wealth of information. They describe the infection as the new epidemic.

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/bartonella-the-epidemic-you%E2%80%99ve-never-heard-of.17859/#post-272271

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/lyme-disease-dust-mites-carry-bartonella.18190/

    Eco
  8. snowathlete

    snowathlete

    Messages:
    2,155
    Likes:
    2,518
    UK
    merylg likes this.
  9. snowathlete

    snowathlete

    Messages:
    2,155
    Likes:
    2,518
    UK
    One of De Meirleir's latest videos talks about Bartonella. He says that he is finding it a lot in patients (about 50% along with Borrelia and Brucella) and it is hardly ever the strain that causes cat scratch disease (B. Henselae).

    Has been treating patients with it for about a year. "Some people recover completely and others recover partially."
    merylg likes this.
  10. merylg

    merylg Senior Member

    Messages:
    764
    Likes:
    494
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
  11. acer2000

    acer2000 Senior Member

    Messages:
    578
    Likes:
    217
    What treatment is KDM using for Bartonella?
  12. snowathlete

    snowathlete

    Messages:
    2,155
    Likes:
    2,518
    UK
    I don't know if he uses the same with everyone, or not, but for me it's Rifampin and Clarithromycin. I read one paper that showed these two along with Doxy are the three best options.
  13. Captain-Ger

    Captain-Ger

    Messages:
    18
    Likes:
    0
    Hi acer2000,

    how long have you take antibiotics?
    Do you notice improvements?
  14. acer2000

    acer2000 Senior Member

    Messages:
    578
    Likes:
    217
    I took Zithromax and Rifampin for about 9 months with no improvement in symptoms. I wonder though, if that was the right treatment. I have seen lots of very different treatment protocols for Bartonella.
  15. snowathlete

    snowathlete

    Messages:
    2,155
    Likes:
    2,518
    UK
    From what I've read (and I haven't completed my research yet) Zithromax (azithromycin) hasnt been proven effective. I wouldnt rule it out yet, but there is better evidence for some other anti-microbials to be used in conjuction with Rifampin - which looks the best one from what ive read so far. Most are not bacteriocidal, and those that are often don't get inside erythrocytes enough, which makes eradication non-simple. I probably would try an alternative if you have solid evidence of infection.
  16. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes:
    419
    United States
    I posted earlier about Buhner saying in his book, Healing Lyme, that bartonella only accounts for 5% of the coinfections. I also mentioned he has a new book specifically devoted to bartonella and mycoplasma.
    http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Lyme-Disease-Coinfections-Complementary/dp/1620550083
    In the description of the new book, it says bartonella and mycoplasma are the most common coinfections while in Healing Lyme it says babesia accounts for 80% of the coinfections. I'm not sure what's going on, but there is a 7-year gap between the books.
    snowathlete likes this.
  17. snowathlete

    snowathlete

    Messages:
    2,155
    Likes:
    2,518
    UK
    Interesting. I guess maybe it's new strains having been found in the intervening years, and better testing techniques, that account for the change?
  18. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes:
    419
    United States
    It's very strange that such a change in statistics could happen over an 8-9 year gap, but your guess is as good as mine. I guess someone will have to read the book...:D
  19. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    6,919
    Likes:
    5,776
    Albuquerque

    The standard tests for Bart don't test for many strains--2 or 3 I think. Newer tests check for many more.

    Sushi
    merylg and Lotus97 like this.
  20. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes:
    419
    United States
    Buhner posted this December 2012. I guess he's publishing a separate book for coinfections babesia and ehrlichia (which he said were the most common in his Healing Lyme book published around 2005).
    He also posted this March 2013 about length of treatment for bartonella

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page