Discussion in 'Phoenix Rising Articles' started by Mark, May 24, 2013.
It's a shame that your symptoms have not improved with symptoms.
My symptoms improved with treatment but I am still not symptom free.
In Buhner's book, Healing Lyme, he says that Bartonella only accounts for 5% or less of the coinfections in Lyme. He must have thought it was an important issue though since he wrote an entire book about Bartonella.
From Infectolabs Australia site
Bacteria: Bartonella henselae (gram-negative, optional intracellular in endothelial cells / Erythrocytes) and/or BLO = Bartonella like organisms
Vector/Transmission: surface wounds/scratch from cats, Ixodes ricinus
Symptoms: (incubation period 3 – 38 days): headache (80%), fatigue (100%), muscle twitches, tremors, cramps, shivering, fever in the mornings (30%, in thrusts up to 6 weeks, otherwise 1 – 3 weeks), swollen lymph nodes, arthralgia (often), myalgia, insomnia, depression, agitation, amentia, concentration and attention disorder, dizziness, restlessness, gastritis, intestinal problems, sore feet soles (especially in the morning), hypodermic nodules along the extremities, no or minimal joint pain (important according to J.J. Burrascano)
Severe progression: endocarditis, retinitis, epilepsy, aseptic meningitis, hepatosplenomegalia
Risk factors: immune suppression
- PCR on Bartonella in blood (EDTA-blood): direct detection
- Histology (hemangiome/lymphadenitis)
- Antibodies on bartonella henselae-IgM and bartonella henselae-IgG: indirect detection
- Elevated vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF), only rarely increased
an article on bacteria and the brain etc.
Neurodegenerative diseases are chronic degenerative diseases of the central nervous system (CNS) that cause dementia. For the most part, the causes of these brain diseases remain largely
unknown.1 They are characterized by molecular and genetic changes in nerve cells that result in nerve cell degeneration and ultimately nerve dysfunction and death, resulting in neurological
signs and symptoms and dementia. In addition to neurodegenerative diseases, there are also neurobehavioral diseases that mainly, but not exclusively, appear in the young, such as autistic
spectrum disorders (ASD) that encompass autism, attention deficit disorder, Asperger’s syndrome, and other disorders. There appear to be genetic links to neurodegenerative and
neurobehavioral diseases, but the genetic changes that occur and the changes in gene expression that have been found in these diseases are complex and not directly related to simple genetic alterations. In addition, it is thought that nutritional deficiencies,
environmental toxins, heavy metals, chronic bacterial and viral infections, autoimmune immunological responses, vascular diseases, head trauma and accumulation of fluid in the brain,
changes in neurotransmitter concentrations, among others, are involved in the pathogenesis of various neurodegenerative and neurobehavioral diseases. One of the biochemical changes found in essentially all neurological, neurodegenerative, and neurobehavioral diseases is the overexpression of oxidative free radical compounds (oxidative stress) that cause lipid, protein, and genetic structural changes.
Oxidative stress can be caused by a variety of environmental toxic insults, and when combined with genetic factors, pathogenic processes could result. An attractive hypothesis for the
causation or promotion of neurological disease involves chronic bacterial or viral toxic products, which result in the presence of excess reactive oxygen species and culminate in pathologic
changes. Infectious agents may enter the CNS within infected migratory macrophages, they may gain access by transcytosis across the blood-brain barrier, or enter by intraneuronal transfer from peripheral nerves. Cell-wall-deficient bacteria, principally species
of Chlamydia (Chlamydophila), Borrelia, Brucella (among others), bacteria without cell walls, such as Mycoplasma species, and various viruses are candidate infectious agents that may
play important roles in neurodegenerative and neurobehavoral diseases. Since they are usually systemic, such infections can affect the immune system and other organ systems, resulting in
a variety of systemic signs and symptoms.
it is evident that one can get both bacterial and viral infections at the same time.
I did another posting on this from a research center which specializes in Bartonella and has a wealth of information. They describe the infection as the new epidemic.
for those of you who can't get enough of Bartonella at the moment, particularly as a Lyme co-infection, here is an interesting read:
One of De Meirleir's latest videos talks about Bartonella. He says that he is finding it a lot in patients (about 50% along with Borrelia and Brucella) and it is hardly ever the strain that causes cat scratch disease (B. Henselae).
Has been treating patients with it for about a year. "Some people recover completely and others recover partially."
What treatment is KDM using for Bartonella?
I don't know if he uses the same with everyone, or not, but for me it's Rifampin and Clarithromycin. I read one paper that showed these two along with Doxy are the three best options.
how long have you take antibiotics?
Do you notice improvements?
I took Zithromax and Rifampin for about 9 months with no improvement in symptoms. I wonder though, if that was the right treatment. I have seen lots of very different treatment protocols for Bartonella.
From what I've read (and I haven't completed my research yet) Zithromax (azithromycin) hasnt been proven effective. I wouldnt rule it out yet, but there is better evidence for some other anti-microbials to be used in conjuction with Rifampin - which looks the best one from what ive read so far. Most are not bacteriocidal, and those that are often don't get inside erythrocytes enough, which makes eradication non-simple. I probably would try an alternative if you have solid evidence of infection.
I posted earlier about Buhner saying in his book, Healing Lyme, that bartonella only accounts for 5% of the coinfections. I also mentioned he has a new book specifically devoted to bartonella and mycoplasma.
In the description of the new book, it says bartonella and mycoplasma are the most common coinfections while in Healing Lyme it says babesia accounts for 80% of the coinfections. I'm not sure what's going on, but there is a 7-year gap between the books.
Interesting. I guess maybe it's new strains having been found in the intervening years, and better testing techniques, that account for the change?
It's very strange that such a change in statistics could happen over an 8-9 year gap, but your guess is as good as mine. I guess someone will have to read the book...
The standard tests for Bart don't test for many strains--2 or 3 I think. Newer tests check for many more.
Buhner posted this December 2012. I guess he's publishing a separate book for coinfections babesia and ehrlichia (which he said were the most common in his Healing Lyme book published around 2005).
He also posted this March 2013 about length of treatment for bartonella
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