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Bad reaction to Apple Cider Vinegar -- histamine or die-off?

Discussion in 'Hypersensitivity and Intolerance' started by outdamnspot, Nov 1, 2016.

  1. outdamnspot

    outdamnspot Senior Member

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    I have a Candida issue. I've tried ACV a handful of times now and react to it almost immediately -- I notice my sinuses clearing, but then am also hit with a 'crash' and brain fog, depression, stomach gurgling etc. A couple of times, a small rash has appeared on my hand almost immediately after taking it -- but I also get a lot of rash/skin symptoms related to detox.

    Last night, I tried one tablespoon (I'd typically been using a teaspoon) and could hardly sleep because I felt like I was suffocating. Today was completely miserable.

    I get breathing problems when I crash, so am wondering if a) this is Candida die-off, or b) a histamine intolerance? Or maybe even both?
     
  2. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @outdamnspot - it could also be a detox reaction. ACV used to cause a detox reaction for me - if you google ACV and detox, you'll find a lot of info. A tablespoon is quite a bit, especially compared to the teaspoon you had been using.
     
  3. outdamnspot

    outdamnspot Senior Member

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    Thanks, Mary. So did you eventually adjust to it? I have read up quite a bit, but sometimes it's hard to separate detox from other negative reactions.
     
  4. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    Well, I think I "adjusted" when my detox pathways started working better. Tons of things used to make me detox, anything (like ACV) that had potentially "cleansing" properties in general caused often major detox reactions. This went on for several years and I did my best to avoid those things because it didn't seem to get better.

    And then, it's a long story, but it seems that 3 amino acids helped me with detoxing in general: glycine, inositol and glutamine. I was taking them for various reasons - e.g., glycine for sleep - caused a huge detox reaction but muscle testing indicated it was good for me, in small doses and I was able to gradually and very slowly increase glycine. I had a similar reaction to inositol (also for sleep) but not nearly as strong as glycine, and the glutamine was part of a branched chain amino acid combo that was helping with PEM, so I stuck it out and that improved too.

    Since that time (1 or 2 years ago, can't remember now), I hardly ever detox any more. I learned that these 3 amino acids are used in phase II liver detoxification and I tolerate them all now with no problem.

    I know it can be confusing and hard to tell exactly what is going on - as you say, hard to separate detox from herxing and so on. I use muscle testing a lot and it has helped me navigate all these various reactions, to know if something is helping or hurting and so on. I see a chiropractor who does it and I also do it on myself.

    Also, virgin coconut oil was very effective for me in treating candida. I reacted very strongly to it, had a herx reaction for about 11 days ... you have to go slow with it, I'd start with 1 or 2 teaspoons and depending on what happens, work up to 2 tablespoons a day. It's very effective though - it has lauric acid and monolaurin and a few other things, is antifungal. It melts in your mouth and is not greasy like butter.
     
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  5. outdamnspot

    outdamnspot Senior Member

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    @Mary thanks, I actually recall you mentioning the same thing re: the amino acids and your liver when I said that I was experiencing a bad reaction to activated charcoal!

    Unfortunately, I can't tolerate glycine (since it lowers cortisol), but I have been doing coffee enemas for my liver almost daily over the past 8 weeks. Sadly, I haven't seen any major improvements, aside from feeling better for a few hours after the enema.

    I drink coconut oil in my coffee daily .. I actually think I've been herxing on it for several months (if that's possible) because I always notice I feel a lot better if I leave it out of my coffee :-/

    I am looking at trying to improve methylation now, since I'm an undermethaylor, but even introducing a low dose of B12 today seemed to trigger a detox reaction! I will persist with it, though.
     
    Mary likes this.
  6. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @outdamnspot - it's crazy how sensitive we are! and all so different but so similar at the same time - I wish there was an easy way through this. You might check out muscle testing sometime. I would have been lost without it, not having a clue as to what was doing what to me!
     
  7. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    @Mary , I found a website for some muscle testing and it didn't seem to work. Are you supposed to apply a lot of pressure to get an effect or not? Thanks.
     
  8. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    You shouldn't have to apply a lot of pressure. I had it done several times by my chiropractor before attempting to do it myself. It can take some practice, and there are some things to keep in mind as well - e.g., you should try to empty your mind before doing it because if you are strongly hoping for (or against) a particular result, then that can influence the result you get. So I try to relax and keep my mind blank when I do it.

    I've done it for so long now, it's second nature. I do still see my chiropractor from time to time, most often to see if our testing agrees, and it almost always does, which is reassuring. And the proof is in the pudding - I've been helped more times than I can count by muscle testing.

    There are different techniques, they're all similar but a little different, so you might try a different technique, look at different videos. I think the best way to go is to have it done first by someone who is good at it - you'll get a feel for how it works.
     
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  9. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    @Mary, thanks, I think I'll talk to my chiro about it. This is very interesting.
     
  10. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    Hopefully your chiropractor will know about muscle testing, but if they don't do it (many don't), one good way to find someone is the Standard Process website, which has a search feature for practitioners who use their products. Standard Process as you probably know makes very well-regarded food-based and glandular nutritional supplements.
     
    Paralee likes this.
  11. L'engle

    L'engle moogle

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    ACV and coconut oil are both really strong substances. I use ACV on my hair and coconut oil as a skin cream. I get a thyroid flare if i I ingest very much coconut. I also had a weird reaction to it once when I used a large amount on my scalp. I've never ingested the AVC but I think it could have a strong effect for various reasons.
     
  12. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

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    I think it depends on how quickly after taking you have the reaction. within two hours is more likely a histamine/allergic thing, within two days more likely die off etc.

    I have MCAS and have similar symptoms as you describe when I react to something - you would be surprised how many symptoms are attributable to it.
     
    ahmo likes this.
  13. South

    South Senior Member

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    Vinegar is acetic acid; acetic acid is one of what makes acetylcholine in the body.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylcholine

    Acetylcholine info could fill a book. Your body needs it, but too much too fast can cause issues.
     
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  14. outdamnspot

    outdamnspot Senior Member

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    @justy it could be MCAS, but I'm not sure I agree die-off appears a few days later. I get die-off reactions pretty quickly.

    @South hmm interesting, that could explain why it affecting my breathing -- anything that improves the sympathetic system and lowers adrenaline tends to make my air hunger worse.

    I did take just 1 teaspoon in water last night and it was better.
     
  15. Hanna

    Hanna Senior Member

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    It seems to me like an histamine intolerance reaction to ACV.
    One teaspoon of ACV in a gl ass of water left me with breathing problems, puffy and red skin on face and torso, and racing heart bit. Won't do it again.
    By the way I get a reaction very similar to it with coconut oil, which is also rich in histamine.
     
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  16. cman89

    cman89 Senior Member

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    Keep in mind also, that methylation supps also affect neurotransmitters, and so a lot of times I would suspect that the so called "detox" from this may also be neurotransmitters being activated stronger than they were before. This can be disconcerting for those that are not used to it. Very "stimulating", at least for me.
     
    Mels likes this.
  17. L'engle

    L'engle moogle

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    Managed to give myself a bad reaction to ACV. I used a different brand than normal on my hair and used too much. I inhaled some fumes and absorbed some through my scalp last night. Was ok overnight but today I have a very thick feeling in my head and a headache that is heading for a migraine. I normally use an organic brand but bought one of the standard brands because it was cheaper. It had a weird smell and I don't think I'll use it again.
     
  18. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    @L'engle , was it the regular white vinegar like the grocery store carries? I use that to clean with. I had thought it would be ok for skin, etc. but this is making me think again.
     
  19. L'engle

    L'engle moogle

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    @Paralee It was apple cider vinegar but not organic. I've tried white vinegar but it made my scalp too dry.
     
  20. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    Taking ACV makes me feel like I'm suffocating, after a few days of taking it regularly. Really unpleasant shortness of breath. It tends to resolve after a couple of days of avoiding it. No such reaction to balsamic vinegar btw.
     

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