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Bacteriophage therapy (phage therapy) for gut infections / dysbiosis — just $30 instead of $2500

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Hip, Nov 13, 2015.

  1. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Bacteriophage therapy (phage therapy for short) is a method of fighting bacterial infections using bacteriophages, which are viruses that specifically infect and kill bacteria, but are harmless to humans or animals.

    Unlike antibiotics, phages only kill their specific bacterial targets. This precision targeting of bacteria might conceivably be of advantage in the case of gut dysbiosis (where pathogenic bacteria or fungi in the large intestine outnumber the beneficial bacteria), because phages can selectively kill the pathogenic bacteria, leaving the beneficial bacteria unharmed.

    Phage therapy has a history of 100 years, and is still widely used in Russia, Georgia and Poland.

    Bacteriophage therapy is available at the Phage Therapy Center in Tbilisi, Republic of Georgia, which is a private clinic.
    There is also the NovoMed Integrative Medicine Center in Tbilisi, Republic of Georgia, which works with the Phage Therapy Center, but is geared for treating Georgian patients, but they also treat foreign patients.

    Both these two clinics are now subsidiaries of PhageInternational, Inc, in California.

    A third bacteriophage therapy clinic is the Eliava Phage Therapy Center, in Tbilisi, Republic of Georgia.

    The cost of being treated by the Phage Therapy Center is around US$2,500 for outpatient care, and around US$20,000 for in-patient treatment. Ref: 1



    However, there seems to be a much cheaper option: recently I became aware (thanks @Andey) of a large Russian online pharmacy called pharmalad.com which is geared up for sending items internationally to any part of the world, and which stocks a range of ready-made phage therapy products costing around $30 each (though note that pharmalad.com has a minimum order of $70 internationally). These phage therapy products can be taken orally.

    Pharmalad.com's list of phage therapy products includes the following phage treatments:

    Staphylococcus bacteria — manufacturer info here.
    Klebsiella pneumonia — manufacturer info here.
    Proteus mirabilis and Proteus vulgaris
    Pseudomonas
    Wide-spectrum phage therapy product that treats: Salmonella species, Escherichia coli, Proteus species, Enterococcus species, Staphilococcus species, Pseudomonas aeruginosa — manufacturer info here.

    It's best to use the Google Chrome browser to look at the above products, as this automatically translates pages to English (the above product pages are in Russian). Or you can use Google Translate with other browsers.

    If you want to search for more phage therapy products on the pharmalad.com website, just enter the Russian word бактериофаг (= bacteriophage) into the search box on pharmalad.com.

    The pharmacy pharmday.org also stock some phage treatments.



    For anyone who has had a digestive stool analysis (or used uBiome.com) to determine the bacterial species in their intestines, they may possibly benefit from selecting a phage therapy from the above list which targets the pathogenic bacteria in their gut.

    I believe the difference between the above ready-made phage therapy products and the phage therapy service provided by the Phage Therapy Center is that the latter has a wide stock of different phages, and if you send them a bacterial sample, they can select the best phages for targeting and killing your particular bacterial species and subspecies.



    One thing to be concerned about with phage therapy is the possibility that too many pathogenic bacteria may be killed too quickly, leading to a release of bacterial toxins that cause a Herxheimer reaction.

    The other thing to be concerned about is that phage therapy might not be of any help, and you will have wasted your money. However, $30 is a lot less than $2500.

    I am considering buying some of these phage therapy products. I have IBS-D, and also, a stool analysis showed I have Staphylococcus aureus and Proteus mirabilis in my gut, which are both considered pathogenic if their populations get too large (according to my Genova Diagnostics stool test report).



    Incidentally, for those with Lyme disease, note that the Phage Therapy Center said that: "there are no therapeutic phages for the Lyme-causing bacteria and therefore phage therapy would not be an appropriate treatment." Ref: 1

    Although there are some researchers at the University of Leicester, UK, looking into bacteriophages for Borrelia. Ref: 1
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
  2. Ekaterina

    Ekaterina

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    Sounds great for me! Thank you for sharing information!
     
  3. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    Last edited: Nov 14, 2015
    Hip likes this.
  4. globalpilot

    globalpilot Senior Member

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    Ontario
    This is very interesting Hip. I wonder if they will develop phages for bacteria involved in SIBO (which may or not be beneficial bacteria in normal amounts). Do you have any thoughts on that ?
     
  5. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I think places like the Phage Therapy Center will have phages in stock that target a wide range of bacteria that commonly infect humans.

    According to this study on SIBO, the bacteria commonly found in SIBO infections are the following (the percent figure indicates the percentage of SIBO patients in which a particular bacterium was found):

    Microaerophilic bacteria:
    Streptococcus 71%
    Escherichia coli 69%
    Staphylococcus 25%
    Micrococcus 22%
    Klebsiella 20%
    Proteus 11%

    Anaerobic bacteria:
    Lactobacillus 75%
    Bacteroides 29%
    Clostridium 25%
    Veillonella 25%
    Fusobacterium 13%
    Peptostreptococcus 13%

    So most of the above SIBO bacteria appear to be the regular bacterial pathogens found in the large intestine, which have migrated into the small intestine (which is often normally sterile), causing SIBO.

    Whether phage therapy might help SIBO, it's hard to say.
     
  6. globalpilot

    globalpilot Senior Member

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    Ontario
    My situation is a bit different in that my overgrowth didn't occur from migration but rather from the mouth into the duodenum and therefore my overgrowths are common mouth bacteria. I'll look into this for SIBO - it's definitely worth a great deal of consideration.
     
  7. linrichard

    linrichard

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    Hi Hip,

    Have you heard of anyone doing the phage therapy or you yourself doing it? Any updates/results.

    I'm thinking of sending the NY phage therapy a sample of my stool to get some phages. I currently have PI-IBS from curing cdiff with FMT.

     
  8. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I have not done phage therapy myself as yet, and don't know any ME/CFS patient who's tried it.
     
    merylg likes this.
  9. South

    South Senior Member

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    Some new sources of phages are on the market, at reasonable prices at sites like Amazon or Iherb.

    Since they are over the counter supplements, they aren't custom-created for any one person. But the labels do list the phages they contain. Just the fact that they are being sold, for reasonable prices, on easy-buy websites, got me excited!

    1. Nutrivee Advanced Prebiotic. If you click on the label photos to see the back of the label, it lists 4 phages by name. The label doesn't use the word “phages”, but the four listed there are in fact, phages (you can google each of the 4 online to read about them)

    2. Life Extension Florassist GI with Phage Technology, back of the label lists 4 phages by name (it also has probiotics in this product, so the label lists probiotics and phages).

    Update: the following blog page neatly lists these and other brands, and compares their ingredients. It appears that all but one on that page have the same 4 phages, and that the phages they contain are "targeting e-coli".
    https://www.toxinless.com/bacteriophages


    So I guess that means they would only be useful if we know our problem was e-coli overgrowth.

    Anyone tried any of these?
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
    Hanna and Hip like this.
  10. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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  11. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Very interesting. Although I could not seem to find any studies or research that examine the efficacy and benefits of these new combined probiotic + phage therapy products.
     
  12. South

    South Senior Member

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    Every non-prescription product that I've found online that lists its phage content by name and letter/number (see below) has the same 4 phages. This makes me think this group of 4 phages is being made by one ingredient supplier who then sells it to the supplement manufacturers.

    It's a shame that there isn't more choice out there yet. The blog I listed in my previous post speculated that these 4 phages "target e-coli". If that's true, it doesn't help those of us who are fighting a different bacteria, that isn't e-coli.

    The 4 phages in all the products I've seen are:
    LH01 Myoviridae
    LL5 Siphoviridae
    T4D Myoviridae
    LL12 Myoviridae

    I tried looking these up individually, but couldn't find any science papers naming these by these number/letter combinations.
     
    Hip likes this.
  13. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    wtf! why didnt this thread get longer? this is important news!

    i have been trying to treat enterococcus overgrowth for years with antibiotics. i am better but the enterococcus persists, doctor says due to inflammation from the CFS(?). anyway, phage therapy sounds amazing for me, at least until they figure out something better over here. i am concerned about resistance developing with all the antibiotic use and my doctor says that is a definite possibility.

    thanks @Hip !!!
     
    Mel9 likes this.
  14. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    hmmm i wonder if i should try ordering a product from Pharmalad. and if it helps, will the infection just come back once i stop taking the phage? i will ask my doctor about this...

    i also notice there is a bacteriophage approved by the FDA as a food additive, to prevent enterococcus faecium. they spray it on food. XpoLysin-EF. wonder if i can get this?
     
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  16. MaximilianKohler

    MaximilianKohler

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    Thanks so much @Hip for that info!

    I followed the link to the "Wide-spectrum phage therapy product" and it says "1x973, 59 USD./ 973.59 USD". I don't know what that means... It's $59? I really want to try the "Complex" and "Intesti" because I think phages are super powerful/important. See the phage section here: https://www.reddit.com/r/HumanMicrobiome/wiki/index#wiki_bacteriophages_.28phages.29.3A

    This is the link to their full list of phage products BTW: https://pharmalad.com/catalog/atc--J01XX11__.htm - don't see the Intesti or the Complex. On the Intesti order page it looks like it might be out of stock or something.

    It also says:

    A brief list of delivery cities
    • Ukraine
    • Russia
    • CIS
    Crap... do they even deliver to the US? I tried to contact them on that chat popup but it's not working.


    @South is correct on the US phage products. They're indeed all the same 4 phages, as they're currently the only ones allowed on the market. I've taken them myself and posted about it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/HumanMicrobiome/comments/6n76p9//dk7a2k4/ - I find them moderately helpful.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  17. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    973.59 is the price in Ukrainian hryvnias, which is about $37. However, although pharmalad.com say on their website that they will send products internationally, I have never been able to get them to send me anything. You place an order, and nothing happens. Their communications are slow and useless.
     
    MaximilianKohler likes this.
  18. MaximilianKohler

    MaximilianKohler

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    Oh god that sucks.....

    Oh well, did it anyway. I'll report back if I ever get it.

     
  19. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Good luck with that; maybe you will get further than I did. I have found that either the consultant never contacts you, or only contacts you after a few weeks; and even when he does contact you, he does not seem to be able to finalize and send the order, and stops communicating.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
    MaximilianKohler likes this.
  20. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    I would listen to this advice and avoid phages for now.
     
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