The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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B6 VITAMIN PROBLEMS

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by zzz0r, Jan 25, 2015.

  1. zzz0r

    zzz0r Senior Member

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    b6 (either plain form or p5p form) is causing stomach upset and pain, fatigue and possibly low blood pressure. Anyone else having these problems with b6?
     
  2. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    I have to be careful with B6, as it seemed to make me physically numb (hands - not sure about feet). But this was years ago. I seem OK with small amounts now.
     
  3. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Sherpa and zzz0r like this.
  4. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    I've just discovered that my former dose of 33mg P5P is now too high. I've reduced it to 1/2. My symptoms were of high ammonia/peroxynitrite: pressure in head, squinty eyes, slight breathlessnes, restlessness, particular taste in mouth...relieved by ammonia-reducing supps.
     
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  5. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Gut bacteria can produce B6, and other B vitamins.
    I think that's one reason why people can have negative reactions to B supplements.
    There are people who have tested high in B6 who do not supplement. Many of them have neuropathy.

    This may be from overgrowth of B6 producing bacteria in the gut. ( a guess )
     
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  6. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    Interesting. Do you have any links to this info? I found this paper on B6 neuropathy via Wikipedia.
     
  7. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    It makes sense. B6, magnesium and resistant starch users report having complex dreams and dream recalling.
     
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  8. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    The only links I have are about B6 being formed in the gut from bacteria.
    https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Bifidobacterium_adolescentis

    http://omicsgroup.org/journals/shou...dered-as-vitamin-supplements-vms.1000e124.pdf

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3298082/

    I haven't been able, in the past, to find a case of elevated or excess B6, pyroxidine, production, from over-production in the gut. ( That's why I'm guessing.) I've read anecdotes of people with elevated B6 who haven't supplemented it. ( Where did it come from? Could it be from an occult source, or bacterial overgrowth?)

    I've not had my own serum B6 measured, but I can no longer tolerate B6 supplements, or certain other B's.

    I have had serum folate measured, though. The last time, it was extremely elevated. I had stopped folate supps. for at least 6mths. I had also decreased high folate foods, as well as fermented foods.

    My guess is that I had an overgrowth of folate producing bacteria in the gut.

    Since the gut can produce numerous vitamins, including B6, I'm guessing that, in a dysbiotic gut, B6 could be overproduced, and cause side-effects.

    This is an extrapolation, so, of course I could be wrong. I believe it's quite possible, though.
     
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  9. boo85

    boo85 Senior Member

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  10. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    Look out for B6 in supplements. 5-HTP and melatonin often also contain B6, which is stupid, as the two supplements are often recommended to be taken together, and the person may already be getting B6 in a multivitamin supplement.

    I spent ages looking for melatonin without B6, selected one that did not list B6 as an ingredient, only to find when it arrived that it DID contain it!
     
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  11. zzz0r

    zzz0r Senior Member

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    I think that @ahmo is correct. B6 can cause overproduction of ammonia especially to people with CBS mutations.

    Also people with dysbiosis that already have high ammonia production in the gut ,as bad bacteria produce ammonia ,would also have problems.

    I am wondering if the pain in the stomach when taking P5P could be due to H. pylori. You can google b6 and h.pylori relationship and you will see articles of how b6 assists h. pylori movement and reproduction.

    Again there is a connection here. H. pylori could also produce high ammonia in the gut and in the stomach that would explain the rest of the symptoms.

    I have tried the sublingual P5P and it gives me no symptoms at all! So I am wondering if it actually working... The same sublingual pill if i swalow it can give me the symptoms I mentioned at my first post including stomach pain.
     
  12. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    There are about 3 threads talking about b6 right now... B6 supplementation must be paired with zinc and magnesium. If you feel better on P5P is perhaps because that less zinc is needed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
  13. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @zz0r I've been tracking my high ammonia for a couple months. I now call it ammonia/peroxy, since clearly in some instances it's due to over exertion, oxidative stress. There clearly seems to have been some shift in me. I don't know whether it can be attributed to good bacteria now producing B6, or bad bacteria increasing my overall burden of ammonia...However, I feel fine with the lower P5P, and again last night, self-tested for none, which might be the new norm. It made an enormous positive difference to my mindset when I began it a couple years ago.

    I've just decided to end my ammonia quest. I've found that both B2 and B6 increased it, that I don't need the higher amounts of those vitamins, and with the help of Martin Pall's recommendations, no longer feel it to be a major issue. I'm willing to let the reason It suddenly became such an issue remain a mystery. Maybe it's really pointing to a layer of healing which now makes the B6 unnecessary. OTOH, I'm engaged in a major fungal/bacterial protocol, and will see how things shift after these next 6 weeks. cheers.:)
     

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