1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Join the National PR Campaign for ME: Power to the Patient (P2tP)
Have you had enough of all the neglect and abuse of ME/CFS patients? Gabby Klein says now is the time for a National PR Campaign for ME/CFS to impress a change. Join the Patient Revolution to restore power to ME patients ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

B6 Side Effects (Get Better then Worse)

Discussion in 'Genetic Testing and SNPs' started by aaron_c, Dec 7, 2013.

  1. aaron_c

    aaron_c Senior Member

    Messages:
    125
    Likes:
    85
    Although I have seen a lot of this mentioned in passing, I haven't been able to find a thread specifically on this, so I thought I'd open one up. In a nutshell, B6 makes me feel amazing for about a day, then makes me feel terrible for the rest of the days I take it. I am curious about the role of CBS mutations in this--is it because I have built up too much sufites? Or is ammonia? Or something else? And what have other people experienced? And if you know, what is your CBS C699T status?

    A very brief primer on CBS and the C699T mutation: CBS causes homocysteine to enter the transulfuration pathway. Yasko thinks the C699T mutation will do this at at an increased rate, which would end up producing an excess of ammonia and sulfites that need to be tackled. The CBS enzyme uses B6 as a cofactor. Yasko believes C699T mutation increases the frequency that this occurs I think maybe 20-fold(?). There seems to be some controversy around how important this mutation is.

    To begin, a short history: I've been sick with chronic fatigue for maybe ten years, depending how you count it.

    Near the beginning of my attempts to fix this medically, I took a lot of supplements, including regular folate (I am MTHFR C677T ++) and B6 (probably 100mg / day). I felt better than I had ever felt, and it lasted maybe a month, followed by maybe a month and a half that were progressively worse, until I became...nonfunctional, because my thoughts were so speedy that one would begin before the last one ended, and so nothing made much sense. I ended up stopping supplementation, and I subsequently got...well my thoughts became the normal sludgy.

    Subsequently, I was treated (successfully, I hope) for heavy metal toxicity. In the last year I began doing the Yasko protocol. Having begun pretty much everything she indicated I do, I inadvertently started taking a supplement with B6 in it (up till then, I had taken none) Suddenly, things got better. Beautiful things looked beautiful, and songs actually touched me. I felt so much more human! But within a day, maybe three, it was gone, to be replaced by a fairly deep depression. Two or three weeks later, I figured out that I was taking B6, and stopped. The depression lifted back up to the usual plodding grey.

    Notice that the first time I used B6, the good times lasted at least a month, and the decent took at least a month and a half, while the second (and other times) I have tried it, the good times last a day, maybe three, and the descent takes about the same amount of time before hitting the bottom. I'm not concerned that hitting bottom meant racing thoughts the first time and severe depression the second--I was taking lots of stuff the first time, so I would expect a different effect. But why the difference in timing? I have started taking Molybdenum to help convert sulfites into sulfates. Perhaps I had high molybdenum stores the first time, and their depletion was a major mediator of my slow crash? Any other ideas? Similar experiences? Thank yall so much.
     
    victoriana likes this.
  2. Gandalf

    Gandalf

    Messages:
    58
    Likes:
    54
    Germany
    There could be many reasons why b6 had this effect on your body. But I dont think it is wise to take B6 in your case.
    After a quick look over your SNPs, Id think you would have most luck with methionine.
    And watch out with molyb. If you take too much for too long, you will cause irreversible damage to yourself.
     
  3. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

    Messages:
    943
    Likes:
    528
    Murcia, Spain
    Hmm impossible to know what is going with you and pyridoxine without extensive biochemical testing but when you take large amounts of one B-tamin the others tend to deplete over time. The solution lays in taking a balanced active B-complex.

    This could be the case, but I also think that CBS mutation homo we both share could be it too since it needs B6 as a cofactor. I will start B6 soon because I have adrenal fatigue and I am blood test defficient anyway. I hope I don´t get much crazier than now lol However, if the B6 was affecting CBS negatively, why the Yasko protocol didn´t help with that? How much were you taking the last time? 100 mgs is probably and overdose, my max would be 50.
     
  4. aaron_c

    aaron_c Senior Member

    Messages:
    125
    Likes:
    85
    Thanks Gandalf and Beyond.

    Gandalf: I'm concerned about methionine supplementation because according to yasko, with my CBS ++ it will just drain down the transsulfuration pathway and create more sulfites and ammonia. And just to see, I actually took some SAMe the other day...eh. I felt slightly cracked out, somewhat more sulfuric, and it didn't seem like the missing piece. (for those of you not familiar with the methionine cycle, methionine becomes S-Adenosyl-Methionine I believe on the way to homocysteine.

    I have another theory on why B6 is so helpful though, and why I am so depleted of it. Not just CBS. This is Rich Van K's whole theory on Glutathione Depletion and Methylation Block. Basically, a block in the krebs cycle causes the body to catabolize more proteins maintain energy, but this uses B6, so eventually one becomes B6 deficient. So not only would B6 help me make those neurotransmitters I'm missing, but it feeds my underfed krebs cycle, giving me more energy.

    As for molybdenum, I thought I'd move that reply here, so the threads can stay more on topic.

    Beyond: That's interesting about the what happens when you just take one B vitamin... I do take a multi that I compound myself fashioned after yasko's. I believe she has 15 mg B6 in hers. I think the yasko protocol does what it can to address the CBS mutation, but having an overactive enzyme that we can't directly turn off is in some ways more complicated than dealing with an underactive enzyme where we can just supplement more of what it's supposed to be making.

    As to how much I took the last time... I can't remember, it was some mthf+B6 supplement... Probably 20-50 mg / day, I really don't know though.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
  5. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    3,039
    Likes:
    1,711
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    For CBS, I believe Yasko suggests to keep B6 below 20mg, and I believe the P5P form is preferred. 100mg or 50mg would be an overdose. I'm just taking whatever is in her All in One multi for now.

    For molybdenum I did 75mcg while on a CBS protocol, and am doing 25mcg for maintenance to keep the CBS pathway running properly.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page