Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by brenda, Mar 17, 2012.
Thank you! I hope there is a way out for everyone!
Lots of good wishes!
Thank you for your posts Asklipia, it has been most helpful.
This question is open to anyone:
For the 30 odd pages, what I seemed to get is this:
*B2 is needed for both ATP production and processing of folates, wether fake or real
* Manganese is needed for B2 and glutamate conversion
* Vitamin K is used for Vitamin D absorption and also uses up free glutamates
So it seems that... the aim to take these three is to get rid of glutamate, fake folates and restore Krebs + Glutamate-Glutamine Cycle + Folate Cycle by processing real folates?
I feel so happy if I have been helpful!
This is most probably what I did.
But I think there are at least two more aspects to this :
1 - I do feel that the B2 has somehow changed something in the immunity. At one point we felt we were rid of something that had been crippling us and was distinctively foreign to our normal selves. After that things went up and up by bursts.
There is an effect of glutamate on the immune function, and I suspect it might work in the same way that folic acid is helping the proliferation of yeasts. I do think that in the same way the massive addition of fake folates to the first industrial foods in the very beginning of the 20th century led to an explosion of tuberculosis (which is a mycobacterium).
In the 1930's a cure for tuberculosis was developed using a synthetic vitamin K (called K5). This is still used for veterinary purposes in Pakistan I believe. The idea to fight a mycobacterium with something that mops up glutamates was abandoned when penicillin appeared.
2 - I think that glutamates are reinforced by anything that is exciting for the sympathetic nervous system. On my list are a few things like :
- all artificial fragrances, which are developed to please the customers who crave that feeling;
- colours on screens, especially the blue colour of computers, smartphones etc. They elicit the same nervous response. Since I switched all my screens to black and white (and I did a lot of work on computers before we had colour screens - I did not own a TV back then, and working long hours on the black and white screen never seemed to to any harm - so going back to black and white was not unpleasant), in a couple of days I felt the glutamate effect go even further down. These blues have been tested and are preferred by customers. They are addictive, just like glutamates;
- very short scenes in films. The faster the change visually, the more effective. This is why at the beginning of pictures they show a kaleidoscope of shots to make the viewer hooked.
There are more, related to all the senses.
I think this disease has a very deep link to being overwhelmed.
Lots of good wishes!
the latest update....
Here we go again
Funnily enough I ordered biotin yesterday. Will report back.
Funnily enough, I realized last week that the R Lipoic Acid I am now taking contains less biotin than its predecessor and bought a biotin supplement. I am now taking more biotin than ever. (I also take Xanax which depletes biotin.)
If she can figure out how to keep the body producing energy as ATP, I think that would go a long way toward resolving ME, at least in my case.
hibikijoji, Christine told me that B2 is also need to manufacture the carrier protein for iron, bind iron to it and send it out of the liver for proper usage, including making hemoglobin.
I do hope biotin will help you and Brenda.
However it hasn't been a limiting factor for myself or my husband. We always ate a lot of eggs, never any egg whites raw. And we became sick and got out of this sickness without changing the amounts of eggs eaten per week or taking any extra biotin.
I do think she is right when pointing out the importance of fatty acids.
I think that all processed food contains glutamate-laden oils, which serve as a preservative. We are drowned in these oils and they must affect the fats in our bodies (brains and nerves). A big part of our getting better has been to avoid ENTIRELY anything ready-made, and to eat an amazing amount of fats, home-made ghee from organic butter, lamb's fat, goose and ducks fat, fresh oily fish, coconut oil, raw yolks, lamb's brains, etc.
We had started doing this because we were taking MK4 three times a day, supposedly with some fat. Somehow our appetite for fat kept increasing so we followed it.
I thought of biotin because my hair has been falling out. I also wondered whether cooked egg whites can affect some people. I agree with you about oils and cut them completely a few months ago, using animal fats and coconut oil. I`m not eating fish for mercury and histamine. I have now gone macrobiotic after recalling how well I did on it in the past but still atm with eggs and meat during transition.
As your appetite for fat increased did your weight do likewise? I have been trying to figure out how to eat all of the healthful fats without becoming fat.
No on the contrary we lost weight. Maybe not immediately, because to tell you the truth we were so sick that our weight was the least of our concerns. One day I felt well and cleaned a part of the house where the scales were and I tried : amazing! I thought the scales were broken and I changed the batteries. But I had lost weight.
I am now about 25 lbs lighter than I was at my most heavy. This loss was extremely progressive over a year or two. I don't weigh myself because I don't care. I do not test my cholesterol because I don't care. After all I have been through I think I know if I am getting better or not.
I think that what I am doing is working for us. I am not tempted by a visit to a doctor or a hospital now. Obviously I am much healthier than the last doctors I saw. Which does not mean I am not tempted by ensuring that this progress goes on. I am trying to understand how this all came about, for myself and for others.
Because focusing on the history and the cause of it all will definitely help to ensure IT DOES NOT HAPPEN AGAIN.
I am reading a lot of history these days, especially about the opium wars and the English trade with India and China. I find a lot of similarities between opium and MSG in that respect.
After any war, never mind the number of victims, there are survivors, and generally this is a fairly good time for them.
This is where my hopes lay.
Lots of good wishes!
Be well! and listen to this nice song :
b2 and b6 required to make 5-MTHF
Methylation and MTHFR Defects presented by Benjamin Lynch, ND
I'm coming to this gigantic thread very late in the day having been forced to give up a methylation protocol for the third time in three years (Fred's, then Rich's, then another) because of increasing debilitation unrelieved by any amount of electrolytes including potassium and, this time, increasingly dry eyes. I was having to use eye drops but they were ineffective. My eyes became so dry that as soon as I read on the forums that there might be a connection with the methylation protocol, I stopped it. My eyes immediately started to improve but they're still not back to normal a couple of months later.
I'm wondering if I should supplement with B2 and I'd like to know what starting dose and whether/how to increase it. I see on a brief read of the start of the thread that some people are mentioning about 50mg/day - but Now Foods B2, for instance, is sold in 100mg tablets.
Are there any issues I should be aware of when choosing a B2 product?
Is there a brief summary I can read about B2 and how to use it, what to watch out for, etc.?
You should know that in many instances supplementing with B2 at the beginning seems to increase the need for B2. So starting small is a good idea. Because the increased need for B2 might make your eyes dyer.
Also there are studies showing that more than 27 mg of B2 at one time cannot be absorbed.
It is a good idea to split your 100 mg tablet roughly in a least four pieces. And to take no more than half of those 25 mg pieces a day for at least a week. 12.5 mg. With some food, especially containing calcium (milk, yoghurt etc)
Dry eyes are a very bad idea as they increase the cataract issues.
Lots of good wishes,
Our hair too has been falling out from time to time. This was certainly not from biotin deficiency. I suspect a local yeast problem, affecting hormonal balance, for several reasons.
I am not afraid of eating fish. I take care that the fish we eat are not huge and very old. They are not sick from mercury because they have enough selenium to be OK. We eat fish only fresh (or home-frozen for a couple of days only).
There are no problems with histamine in that way.
Macrobiotic : as you will have understood, this is not the way we went. On the contrary.
Lots of good wishes!
Yikes - that's a bit frightening that it could get worse - it got pretty bad. If it gets worse, how long is it likely to take to start to improve? I realise that's a bit of a difficult question!
Sorry, I cannot help. Obviously it all depends on what you have been doing are are doing now!
I am not giving any advice, just stating what happened to me.
Good luck and best wishes!
I was disappointed that I did not lose weight on 3 months of organic meat, eggs ,dairy, with raw cheese, fruit and veg, cooked from scratch no vegetable oils at all. I was developing swelling betwen the knuckles which is not very good heartwise and did not feel any real improvement as far as my heart went.
I remembered how well I did on macrobiotics in the past. I had a remarkable three days of underarm discharge, followed by a large step up in health levels, being practically bedbound at the time. I felt very clean inside and absolutely stable neurotransmitters.
The healing macro diet is very low fat and low protein, and I am experimenting to see to what extent the regime applies to me personally with my health today, added to the supplements I am taking so I am having my freshly slaughtered grass fed beef and marrow bones from the same beef source a few times a week. Macrobiotis did not get it exactly right as there were cancer deaths which I believe were due to folate deficiency possible with MTHFR folk.
The well soaked well cooked well chewed organic brown rice which I buy from California, is a revelation. It makes my body feel very calm and happy. Natto is making my skin feel amazing.
I am losing weight and looking better. I took biotin in the past for hair loss and it worked very quickly I remember.
ps I am O neg blood group so should not be eating a high carbo diet. We`ll see.
Thanks for explaining what you do Brenda!
And good wishes!
Please keep us informed how you get on with biotin!
I did not know that
Vitamin B2-based blue-light photoreceptors in the retinohypothalamic tract as the photoactive pigments for setting the circadian clock in mammals
YASUHIDE MIYAMOTO AND AZIZ SANCAR*
Several things come to mind :
- supplementing with B2 fixed my circadian rhythm,
- supplementing with B2 helped me with melatonin sufficiency!
- maybe watching (mainly blue) colour screens (computer and big TV display) ate up my vitamin B2 and this was creating a pineal/ hypothalamus problem?
- hence a sympathetic/parasympathetic balance problem?
- maybe all this wifi (not mine!!!!) environment in cities and electromagnetic frequencies are depleting us of B2?
Just trying to understand what went right
There seems to be an awful lot of interesting uses to this B2.
Of course Bs go together and ingesting of Fake Folates + the above could well be creating a B2 deficiency.
Latest news : we feel fine!
Lots of good wishes!
I have read through a lot of this mega thread and it confuses me to think that for PWC's, the supporting B-vitamins can't be gotten in sufficient quantities from a product like this:
I see this product contains co-enzyme forms (in some cases, multiple active forms!) of all the B-vitamins which are several times the RDI levels. For people who have a confirmed GD-MCB issue (e.g. from the methylation panel, ive attached my results to this post), the methylfolate/B12 protocol seems like the absolute primary treatment protocol and the above B-complex seems more than sufficient to provide all the "supporting" B-complex.
Another hypothesis that comes to mind is what if the downstream B2 [and others] depletion is coming from a basic imbalance in the REDOX state?...which glutathione depletion could be responsible. I remember Rich commented on my test results stating that high Omega 6 fatty acids suggests NADH insufficiency, which could be caused by excessive peroxynitrite levels depleting the NADH. What if something similar happens with the other B's, such as riboflavin?
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