B2 I love you!

[Asklipia]

On 3rd May I posted this :

I am getting better in some respects after 3 weeks on B2 (12.5 to 25 mg/day) and manganese (10 mg every other day). More energy, deeper breath, more dreams but awful. Some things are getting worse: sleep agitated and shorter, hearing loss, vague nausea sometimes, irritation of the eyes and joints.
Maybe three weeks is not much, but I was hoping for more!

Here is an update : 2 weeks after I wrote the above (5 weeks since the start of this supplementation), things are generally better.
More energy, deeper breath, not so many dreams, good restorative sleep. Less appetite, I am more easily satisfied by what I eat (appetite is still good). Not so easily overwhelmed. Swam 1 km no problem ON SEVERAL CONSECUTIVE DAYS, which I hadn't done even once for 20 years because I was feeling cold in the water/out of breath/just jittery and wanting to stop/worried I might get cramps/ worried I might have muscular pains afterwards (none now)/generally not feeling like doing it.
Now I wake up and long for the swim and bother my husband to drive me there as though I was going to meet my first love!!!!
No more nausea. No more depression for the moment. Lost some weight (eating less and swimming - leisurely without ANY stress).
Still some slight hearing loss, short term memory loss by bursts, one shoulder hurting sometimes, vision still blurred, and sometimes irritation of the eyes. Some stuff coming out of my scalp and ears.

I had to stop twice for a couple of days, I felt it was too much detox going on. Took a few drops of Sillymarin to help.

I think this is progress. I realize that I am in better shape than many others here but this is I think the end of my journey of recovery. As I stated somewhere I felt 90% recovered when I found this forum, so maybe B2/manganese a a bit of adenosylB12 or methylB12 here and there was just what I needed.
Maybe I am delusional in this "feeling good" moment! Anyway, I enjoy it as long as it lasts!
Be well and I wish you all the best!
Asklipia

 

[fozzaw]

Hi guys, my first post.

I read some of this information on another forum. I was googling
manganese and found autismweb. I think ''Dog Lover'' on that site
is Christine from this site.

For years I had bile deficiency, bilirubin too high, cfs, huge copper/mercury
issues. Tried hormones, chelation, vitamins, minerals, proteins, herbs etc...
All helped a tiny bit, nothing substantially.

I tried manganese and choline and immediately noticed my stools improving, more
brown, less fatty(sorry too much info). I also noticed my blood clotting improving
and my skin getting better. Easier to build muscle first week, but then the effects
wore off. Like something else was being depleted. So I stopped using both.
I was using about 1000mg choline and 20mg of manganese. I hadn't read anything
about the b2 before. So I haven't tried that.

I started chromium about 2 weeks ago. After a few days I started feeling better
quite a bit. Then I noticed my stools got very pale and fatty(sorry again). So after
a little bit of research it seems that chromium and manganese are antagonistic
or something. Yesterday I started manganese again and I felt improvement again
as my liver area felt more relaxed.

Hoping Christine can commen't on the relation between chromium and manganese.
I think I will also add the B2.

Keep the good information coming.

Thanks for posting this. I recently started iron, chromium and boron, and I noticed all three have stressed my liver. Now it makes sense!

 

[fozzaw]

I have been experimenting with sublingual FMN and B2 for the last month, and can report that B2 sublingual is less effective for me than FMN, however, a lot of this is due to difficulty phosphorylating B2 due to low thyroid. After a few days of sublingual B2, I would feel very cold. I have learned during this time that this was due to insufficient thyroid support (first iodine & manganese, then iron), and after this was fixed, B2 no longer made me feel cold. I am pretty sure that phosphorylation is still the major bottleneck because it doesn't work as well as sublingual FMN for "perking up" my brain the next day. Perhaps it is due to the brain transporter only working with FAD, and the bottleneck of phosphorylation.

I currently take 75mg of B2 in 3 divided doses per day. Since B2 is far cheaper than FMN, I'm going to be experimenting with greater doses of B2. I find that oral B2 doesn't have as much of an effect for me.

 

[Asklipia]

Thanks for posting this. I recently started iron, chromium and boron, and I noticed all three have stressed my liver. Now it makes sense!

Fozzaw, I don't know if you are aware of this, but boron seriously depletes B2. B2 is an antidote to boric acid poisoning.

 

[brenda]

Askilipia

Great news! I am doing well feeling much better. My thyroid went from hypO from starting manganese, to hyPER and now has settled down so that I no longer need thyroid hormone.

 

[Rand56]

Fozzaw, I don't know if you are aware of this, but boron seriously depletes B2. B2 is an antidote to boric acid poisoning.

hi Asklipia

Good info. I did not know that boron seriously depletes B2. Awhile back..even though I didn't go overboard on the boron I was taking some for possble candida, balancing of hormones, and increasing libido which it did do. I don't know for a "fact" yet that I am deficient in B2 until I get my hair test done..but it is very possible I was low B2 while I started the boron and I just tanked those levels even more.

 

[richvank]

Hi Rich

Thanks for your suggestion. Do those tests have to be ordered by a doctor? I currently have no health insurance. If not, can I request those tests on my own, and if so, is it a blood test that I would have to go to a place such as Lab Corp to have blood drawn to send it back to them? And if so, do you know how expensive those tests are for someone with no insurance?

Hi, Rand.


If you do the direct measurement of the levels of the B vitamins in the blood at Health Diagnostics, yes, it does require an order from a physician or a chiropractor. I don't know the costs, but you could phone the lab and ask them. The phone number is (732) 721-1234. Yes, you would have to go to a lab that has a phlebotomist to have your blood drawn and processed for shipment. Some hospital labs don't charge for this, but quite a few labs do charge, because some effort is involved.

It is also possible to order a urine organic acids test without a doctor's order, such as the Genova Diagnostics Metabolic Analysis Profile, available from www.directlabs.com for $312. This includes the shipper for sending the urine sample to the lab. Since it's urine, you won't need a phlebotomist ,and they will send the results directly to you by email or postal mail or both, if you request it.

https://www.directlabs.com/OrderTests/tabid/55/language/en-US/Default.aspx

On this panel, a high level of glutaric acid suggests low B2. There is no separate marker for B6 alone, but there are several that respond to the combination of B2 and B6. So if you have high glutaric, you will know that you have low B2, but you won't know if B6 is also low. If you have normal glutaric, and then the combined B2-B6 markers show a deficiency, you will know that your B2 is O.K., but your B6 is low. So this is not quite as definitive a test as measuring the levels directly in the blood, but you can learn something from it, and it doesn't require a doctor's order.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[fozzaw]

Fozzaw, I don't know if you are aware of this, but boron seriously depletes B2. B2 is an antidote to boric acid poisoning.

Thanks for the info. I will keep an eye on this.

 

[richvank]

Rich, I was wondering about the potential for someone low on serotonin, dopamine and noradrenaline to possibly have high b6 levels. I noticed i would get bigger headaches taking the b6, yet i am superdosing on the b2. Is it more likely that my b6 would be low? When I take the B2, the headaches come down.

Hi, Gavman.

Please see my post to Rand, above. I think that testing is the only way to know for sure what these levels are.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[Asklipia]

Askilipia
My thyroid went from hypO from starting manganese, to hyPER and now has settled down so that I no longer need thyroid hormone.

Brenda, Great news! I am so happy for you! My thyroid is OK now. I was hypO a couple of years before and stabilized with thyroid exercises and general healing but I distinctly feel it is even better now. Is it from manganese you think rather than from B2?

 

[brenda]

Yes Christine tells me that after supplementing manganese the thyroid heals quickly.

 

[Rand56]

Hi, Rand.


If you do the direct measurement of the levels of the B vitamins in the blood at Health Diagnostics, yes, it does require an order from a physician or a chiropractor. I don't know the costs, but you could phone the lab and ask them. The phone number is (732) 721-1234. Yes, you would have to go to a lab that has a phlebotomist to have your blood drawn and processed for shipment. Some hospital labs don't charge for this, but quite a few labs do charge, because some effort is involved.

It is also possible to order a urine organic acids test without a doctor's order, such as the Genova Diagnostics Metabolic Analysis Profile, available from www.directlabs.com for $312. This includes the shipper for sending the urine sample to the lab. Since it's urine, you won't need a phlebotomist ,and they will send the results directly to you by email or postal mail or both, if you request it.

https://www.directlabs.com/OrderTests/tabid/55/language/en-US/Default.aspx

On this panel, a high level of glutaric acid suggests low B2. There is no separate marker for B6 alone, but there are several that respond to the combination of B2 and B6. So if you have high glutaric, you will know that you have low B2, but you won't know if B6 is also low. If you have normal glutaric, and then the combined B2-B6 markers show a deficiency, you will know that your B2 is O.K., but your B6 is low. So this is not quite as definitive a test as measuring the levels directly in the blood, but you can learn something from it, and it doesn't require a doctor's order.

Best regards,

Rich

hi Rich

Thanks for all that great info. Ladies and gentlemen.....is this guy awesome or what!!!

 

[fozzaw]

How do you know when you are taking enough or too much manganese? What symptoms do you people look out for?

 

[brenda]

fozzaw

Without guidance, you will be safe with the recommended dosage.

 

[fozzaw]

Thanks to cfs8years post I doubled my dose of manganese to 15mg, and I feel a hell of a lot better.

Someone told me privately today that when she took too much manganese, she started to feel mild muscle coordination issues in her extremities, which went away with beef and later iron supplementation (she was iron anemic).

 

[Little Bluestem]

FWIW, the Institute of Medicine says safe upper limit for manganese is 11 mg/day.

 

[Little Bluestem]

The last time I posted on my results I said that my digestive system was calmer. I later realized that I had also started taking L-Tryptophan a little over a week before. While I take it as a sleep aid, I see that the bottle says that it also promotes relaxation. Since the nervous system and digestive system are closely linked, L-Tryptophan may have had some part in the calmer digestive system.

An improvement that I think is a result of the stopping the high dose B complex is less frequent urination. Christine said that most of the B vitamins are water soluble and you pee out what you don’t need.

I did have a downturn a couple of weeks ago. On Wednesday I woke up with a headache, which is unusual for me. It took several hours to clear. That evening I had nausea at dinner (more usual) and a short headache. I dropped the B1/B2/Manganese to 3 doses that day. On Thursday I had a difficult time getting awake in the morning. I also had itching in my armpits, which I rarely have anymore. I cut the doses to 2 a day and decided to keep it there through Mother’s Day. It was the Wednesday after before I got myself organized enough to get in 3 doses. I am back up to 4 doses now and have increased the manganese.

I have had a couple more instance of armpit itching and wondered if it was related to the B2 regimen. I then realized that I have been busy and have been using my rebounder less. That is more likely to be the reason. It is often difficult to figure out cause and effect.

 

[Asklipia]

I have had a couple more instance of armpit itching and wondered if it was related to the B2 regimen. I then realized that I have been busy and have been using my rebounder less. That is more likely to be the reason. It is often difficult to figure out cause and effect.

Hi Little Bluestem,
I don't use a rebounder and I have had a pain in one armpit (left) that lasted for two days, no more. The pain was strange, like if I had a small wound, a bit like if you cut your finger whilst cooking and lemon juice gets on it. Or as though I had nicked the skin while shaving. There was no sign of any wound though. But the pain felt superficial, not something inside the armpit. It just disappeared completely.
At the time I was taking (still am) B2 (12.5-25 mg a day spread in several doses) and manganese (about 10 mg every other day (which I have changed to nearly every day).

One thing I don't understand is : sometimes I get yellow pee, as though the B2 was not absorbed, and sometimes I do not. I have raised the manganese to 10 mg every day to try to absorb the B2 better. I do not know if this helps as it does not seem to make a difference yet. I seem to recall that Hanna said C. has recommended to keep the pee flowing yellow. Is that true?
All smiles and good wishes on all!

 

[Hanna]

Hi Asklipia,
After analysing my hair sample, C. recommended to reduce my B2 dose to a very tiny one (3 mg) just once a day, so it is no more possible to keep the pee lowing yellow. Don't know if it helps you, but that is the situation.
Good wishes too!

 

[brenda]

Hanna

Manganese should colour the pee yellow too. If it is pale then more manganese is needed as far as I know.