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B12 working but can't sleep.....

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by joe davison, Dec 19, 2012.

  1. TPOBPAH

    TPOBPAH

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    Brandon, MB Canada
    Like many, my dr. is ill trained for lack of b12 so I'm treating myself. I will lay everything out in point form as to not waste time and for clarity.

    35 yr old male.

    Diagnosed approx 5 months ago with a level of 168.

    Initial symptoms were: major fatigue, off balance, slow heart rate, poor sleep, shortness of breath.

    Started on Natural Factors methyl b12 sublingual working my way up to 10,000 a day.

    Had levels checked and they were just over 1000.

    Symptoms now much improved except I can't sleep, up every hour tossing and turning, very little deep sleep.

    I did have sleeping problems prior due to long term stress but was sleeping better until symptoms of low b12 appeared around 7-8 months ago.

    I've tried just taking doses at different times of the day to no avail.

    Also quit taking supplements for 4 days and it seems the symptoms are already returning.

    Any recomendations out there to help get some sleep?

    Thanks very much!
  2. kelly138

    kelly138

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    my first question would be - has a sleep disorder been ruled out? have you seen a sleep specialist and had a PSG?
  3. TPOBPAH

    TPOBPAH

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    Brandon, MB Canada
    Thanks for the reply. No, I haven't seen a sleep specialist mainly because it only got really bad when my low b12 symptoms appeared so I assumed they were connected. That is something I should look into however. Oddly enough, since starting b12 supplements there's been a couple of nights were I've had the best sleep in years.
  4. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    When do you take the b12? I think it can interrupt melatonin production if taken too late in the day, but can increase melatonin production if taken early. Try to get it all dosed before 11am if you can. Other things that you might consider trying are fairly large doses of magnesium, such as mag citrate with meals(work up to a tolerable dose as it will cause digestive issues if you take too much) and potassium chloride with meals(as a salt, at safe doses).

    If all that fails, you could consider taking melatonin at night to help trigger sleep. A typical dose is 1.5 -3mg. Some antihistamines are also good to help induce sleep.

    These are just suggestions, I'm not a doctor :)
  5. TPOBPAH

    TPOBPAH

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    Brandon, MB Canada
    Hello Adster, thanks for the reply. I'm currently taking it in the morning so that's not the problem. I do have that kind of magnesium around so I will try that and I will also look into potassium chloride. I was taking the magnesium before just as a relaxant but I was getting heart palpitations from it so I stopped. I was taking it on a empty stomach though. I have also taken melatonin at times but I end up having VERY vivid dreams and that is on a 1mg dose which I've read is about the max a person should take.
  6. Steve-22

    Steve-22

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    Balatonf├╝red
    Hi Joe!

    The very first thing I saw in this thread is that it doesn't mention folate! B12 and folate work together.
    Do you have a genetic test done? If yes,copy the results.
    Also tell us what other supplements you take and how is your diet?
  7. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Tundras of Europa
    B12 lowers melatonin. Try 0.3 - 0.5mg before bed. I prefer the time released version. Some gaba might help also.
  8. Abha

    Abha Abha

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    Hi Joe,
    I have had bad sleep problems for years..Sleeping tablets never worked:at times made things worse.Diet is important(cut out gluten)for me....Recently I have had good results with lithium orotate(5mgsX5 or3xday)plus 3mg timed release melatonin.I think sunshine helps too but not much in UK!
  9. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

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    Myrtle Beach, SC
    "If all that fails, you could consider taking melatonin at night to help trigger sleep. A typical dose is 1.5 -3mg"

    If you try the melatonin....I would suggest to start even lower than the 1.5 like adreno mentioned above. From what I have read...I'm not the only one where even doses in that range of 1.5 to 3mg's can have an opposite effect and make your insomnia worse. It might not with you, but just in case, I'd start off lower to see how it goes.

    Rand
  10. BEG

    BEG Senior Member

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    I couldn't sleep, either, from the same type of B12. You might try, if it's possible, to split your tablets and find the dosage that will allow you to sleep yet still give you benefit.
  11. TPOBPAH

    TPOBPAH

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    Brandon, MB Canada
    You're correct, I am not currently supplementing with folic acid. I seem to recall reading, that in Canada alot of foods are fortified with it so I assumed I was getting enough. However that may not be the case. How much and when should I take it? I have not had a genetic test done but I am somewhat suspicious of being susceptable to celiac disease (common amongst northern euopeans which is where my family is from) so I'm waiting for some tests to be done.
  12. TPOBPAH

    TPOBPAH

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    Brandon, MB Canada
    I do have some good quality melatonin, how soon before bedtime should I take it?
    AFCFS likes this.
  13. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Don't take "folic acid" which is a synthetic vitamin and may not be able to be converted into the active form in your body. It also depletes the active folates.

    It would be better to take L 5 methyl tetra hydro folate / L 5 MTHF / methyl folate. This is the active form already converted.
    PennyIA and AFCFS like this.
  14. TPOBPAH

    TPOBPAH

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    Brandon, MB Canada
    I will definitely look into L 5 MTHF, do you think that will help with my sleep?
  15. AFCFS

    AFCFS Senior Member

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    Is there a rule of thumb (or clinical data) for how much folate to take with B12 injections? I take a multi that has Meatfolin L 5 MTHF 800 mcg (200% daily value) with B12 subcutaneous injections (.2 ml).
  16. AFCFS

    AFCFS Senior Member

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    I take 6 mg melatonin with 1000 mg l-tryptophan when I am ready to sleep. I typically turn on a movie and am usually asleep in 30 minutes.

    I just started the B12 injections and slept like a log on the first night. My doc, who takes it at night, said it helps with sleep, but said I could try different schedules to see how it works for me. I don't pretend to know the mechanism of action, but after the first dose and then a B12 sub-lingual of 5000 mg in the AM, I felt a positive effect/boost in the day. I hope this either improves or at least maintains.
  17. TPOBPAH

    TPOBPAH

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    Brandon, MB Canada
    I had 1 injection and I didn't sleep well for around 4-5 days after. Since then I've been on the sublinguals which don't affect my sleep as much.
  18. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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    Are your sleep symptoms the same as before?

    I too had problems for a while tossing and turning and waking up 20-30 times at night. Turns out I was over-methylated. When I backed off on the methyfolate, TMG, mb12 etc to more reasonable values sleep patterns improved. Ironically, pain and irritability subsided as well.
  19. TPOBPAH

    TPOBPAH

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    Brandon, MB Canada
    My sleep symptoms starting getting bad at the exact same time I started getting most of my low b12 symptoms. I would go to bed and sleep alright but when I woke up I felt like I hadn't slept at all and had huge bags under my eyes. At the moment I'm cutting down to 2500 mcgs every 2 days (in the morning) to see if that helps.
  20. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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    How much P5p and methylfolate do you take?

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