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B12/methylation and dark yellow urine (viral die-off?)

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by kday, Oct 26, 2010.

  1. kday

    kday Senior Member

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    A thought:

    I tested positive for Babesia. Haven't treated yet. Don't have typical symptoms, and if I do, they are mild.

    Babesia can cause hemolysis. Can methylation treatment cause hemolysis of infected cells? Can this cause the liver to be sluggish or a change in enzymes?
  2. kday

    kday Senior Member

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    So, I have slowed down detox. As I suspected, it was hard on my liver.

    Report (normal stuff omitted):

    The liver shows heterogenous echotexture

    The gallbladder is distended without evidence of cholelithiasis, gallbladder wall thickening or pericholecystic fluid. The common duct is normal measuring 3.2 mm.

    The spleen is enlarged measuring 13.6 cm.

    Conclusion: Heterogenous echotexture of the liver may be related to chronic liver disease. Splenomegaly measuring 13.6 cm.

    -----------

    I don't think it's chronic liver disease. It's just pushing too much toxins via methylation too fast in my opinion. My doctor thinks it's ok if I do some heavy detox/chelation and monitor with labs, but I disagree and I am going to let the liver rest for a bit while taking ALA, Vitamin E, Selenium, and Milk Thistle. My doctor (and myself) thinks liver issues may be from arsenic methylation as the well I used to live on was seized by the government because of high levels. I seem to feel ok without my methylation protocol as long as I take ALA (which may make some sense since ALA chelates arsenic).

    I just want to warn others that methylating certain toxins/metals can cause liver issues and even cancer. Despite the impact on the liver, I always better while dumping toxins. However, I did have viruses, malaise, and weird anxiety/panic type reactions the first few weeks of methylating.

    I am negative for hepatitis viruses, and I obviously don't drink alcohol.
  3. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Kday,

    When arsenic is methylated by methylb12 it forms any extremely volatile gas that is exhaled through the lungs and smells like garlic. It is removed from the body very rapidly in this fashion. Since arsenic is rapidly removed from the body anyway, you must have a source of exposure for it to be chronic. So where in your life is it coming from? It might pay for you to trace it down.
  4. Joopiter76

    Joopiter76 Senior Member

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    Hi Kday,

    Dr. Yasko suggests to always support the organs by raw organ extract, in your case raw liver extract. My spleen is also little enlarged, this is due to the immune activation as well as due to the rapid degeneration of red blood cells because of lack of GSH or NADPH they will die then faster. Becareful with the sulfur containing supplements, you may react to them, as sulfites, sulfur products etc also can inhibit energy production.
  5. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    I would like to mention another reason for a sudden darkening of urine. When the paradoxical folate deficiency starts from folic/folinic acid, it causes much b12 to be dumped into the urine just like with glutathione induced folate deficiency. As soon as sufficient Metafolin is taken and absorbed the color retreats. In high dose b12, I take 30mg by injection daily and another 5mg or so absorbed from sublinguals, the urine is a little colored around the clock with some variations. With the folic/folinic acid paradoxical folate deficiency and glutathione induced folate deficiency there is a strong darkening/reddening of the urine and at other times it will be free of that color when Metafolin is taken and corrects the deficiency. This is very different from the much smaller darkening of taking the high dose b12.
  6. kday

    kday Senior Member

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    Fredd

    Well, I am not directly sure it is Arsenic. Only had a blood test, and urine test is much better. Can high amounts of arsenic (I assume mostly inorganic because of the presence of chlorine?) be stored away since my methylation was literally at a standstill. I actually did complain to doctors for about a year that I just didn't seem to be detoxing anything (and my health was terrible as well), but I was sort of blown off at the time. You make it sound like that if it was a problem, I would have methylated it already as I believe I have very minimal exposure to arsenic currently. While my LabCorp blood test was well within normal range, it actually was consistent with chronic arsenic poisoning after reading literature. Of course, it's best to follow up with a urine test since arsenic in blood isn't extremely sensitive/specific in chronic exposure, but I haven't done that. A bit overwhelmed with testing right now. Thanks for your knowledge Freddd. You and Rich seem to understand this methylation stuff better than any of my doctors (no offense to them as it isn't their focus).

    My folate (RBC) was in mid-normal range according to LabCorp, whatever the significance of that is. As far as folinic acid and metafolin, I currently only take metafolin. Is this bad and why? I know it's probably in your many page thread, but I don't have the patience to click through it all.

    From everyone I talked to, my methylation experience seems to be more than unique, and I am just trying to connect to the dots why. Despite very strong detox, I do respond very well to them, and I hate not taking them. The other strange thing is I got my methylation to go continuously (with no support at all) until I tried a beer on my birthday. This may sound strange, but it's true.

    I guess it's worth mentioning that I have HPU that I haven't even tried to treat.

    Joopiter76

    I assume Yasko sells it? I am broke and I honestly can't afford most of her stuff. I mean I could try to get my parents to pay for it, but if it's $80+ like some of them, I don't think they will just be handing over their credit card. Sigh.

    I know nothing about raw liver extracts, but I did find this:
    http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SW1224/ItemDetail?n=0

    Again, I know it's supposed to support the organs, but I know nothing else about it. The purity and potency of Swanson's stuff is usually very good. I still feel exercise caution before ingesting raw bovine liver tissue. :)

    I know she really believes in her RNA formulas, but I am skeptical about them. I wish I could have a trial bottle or even anectodal evidence before spending $85.

    Oh, and I seem to tolerate the ALA just fine. I previously took it for a month straight only noticing benefits. However, I do seem to react strange to NAC. Thanks for the heads up though.
  7. Shellbell

    Shellbell Senior Member

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    I have a question about urine. Since starting the b12 protocol, I periodically will have cloudy urine. Every time I up my dosages of the B's, my urine clouds up for a day and then goes back to clear bright yellow. I upped my mb12 and folate a few days ago and my urine has been cloudy since yesterday. I have no pain in bladder or kidneys. Just wondered if anyone has had this occur since starting the protocol. Thanks!

    Shellbell
  8. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Shellbell,

    I have had cloudy urine on and off since my teen years, 40-50 years ago. Now it only appears to happen for any sustained period in relation to paradoxical folate deficiency with folic/folinic acid and glutathione induced folate deficiency. So that was probably what was happening on and off all those years, going in and out of folate deficiency. I have been thinking about this the last couple of weeks and have wondered about it for 50 years.
  9. kday

    kday Senior Member

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    I should mention that I got that. They couldn't attribute it to anything, but for some reason I was excreting phosphates in my urine.

    I tested this on my own by taking a urine sample and adding a little bit of vinegar. If it clears right up, it's phosphates. Why was I excreting phosphates? I don't know. There wasn't a definitive pattern, but at times it could be very cloudy.

    It could be other things more serious as well, so get a urinalysis.
  10. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Kday,

    Arsenic is normally excreted by the kidneys having nothing at all to do with methylation. It has a 3 phase serum halflife.
    1 - For first 65% of arsenic, 2 days serum halflife. This phase last perhaps 4 days.
    2 - The next 30% of total has a serum halflife of 10 days. So several 10 cycles pass as it drops to 5%.
    3 - Last 5% has a 40 day serum haflife and in 400 days reduces to 1/1024 of 5%. The next 400 days reduces to about zero.

    The exhale route via methylb12 is rare but has been observed. When arsenic is methylated it becomes essentially harmless and ceases causing symptoms. I would not blame methylation of arsenic for your problems as it is quite unlikely. It appears to take both a substantial amouint of arsenic and a substantial amount of mb12 as it becomes "tri-methyl" or more arsenate. It might take 30mg or more of mb12 to methylate 1mg of arsenic.

    You terrible health with possibly hundreds of symptoms is characteristic of b12/folate deficiencies. If you would check out your symptroms, then and now and in "detox" against the list of symptoms we could speak more specifically.

    Folic acid might be in a variety of food as a specifc fortification such as cereal or as a white flour foritfication. So it might not be limited to intentionally taken folic acid. It is in most multivitamins and most b-complexes and a whole lot of specialized vitamin combos under dozens of names and variations.
  11. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Kday,

    You range a bell here. During the glutathione induced deficiency my urine was cloudy for months and I had to increase my potassium in a major way to keep out of terrible spasms. And it might account for some of the odd increases in potassium I have needed during the paradoxical folate deficiency episodes that seemed to have no explanation.
    Hmmmm.

    I would love to hear Rich speak up on this one.

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