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B12/methylation and dark yellow urine (viral die-off?)

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by kday, Oct 26, 2010.

  1. kday

    kday Senior Member

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    I have read yellow urine may be a sign of viral die-off when on methylation supplements.

    I take up to 25 mg of methyl B12, P5P, Folate, and a B-50 complex and it works great.

    However, the dark yellow urine doesn't stop. If I stop the supplements for a day or two, eventually the dark yellow urine will stop, and I will feel feel worse. Happens every time.

    While I'm producing this yellow urine, my anxiety and chest pain is greatly reduced. More than a pharmaceutical (even the controlled substances) could ever do. My head is perhaps a bit clearer as well, but I wouldn't call it clear. It changes my perception of the surrounding environment significantly and makes it much more pleasant.

    Now, if it is a virus (I really suspect that may be the case), what virus can cause the symptoms that are greatly reduced by my methylation supplements?

    Viruses I've been tested for:
    • Epstein Barr Virus PCR (not detected)
    • HHV-6, IgG Antibodies, Quant (equivocal for previous exposure)
    • HIV (negative)
    • West Nile Virus Antibody, Serum (negative)
    • Hepatitis C (negative)
    • Varicella Zoster IgG (2.41 - High) Range: 0.00-0.90
    • Hepatitis B Screen (negative)
    • Hep A Ab, IgM (negative)

    The only other thing that came back positive was a bacterial infection Lyme (being treated). I also had possible previous exposure to Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever.

    Any ideas on what other viruses I can be tested for? Is Varicella Zoster too elevated, or is that normal? None of my doctors seemed concerned.

    Is there a good broad-spectrum antiviral that I could try without positive viral titers? I don't really know anything about anti-virals as I've never been on them before in my life.
     
  2. slayadragon

    slayadragon Senior Member

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    Are you sure it's not just the B50 that's turning your urine yellow? It has a color to it.

    Best, Lisa
     
  3. kday

    kday Senior Member

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    I'm positive.

    Thanks. Yellowness comes many hours after B12 shots.

    Color is not related to supplements. It's what Amy Yasko describes in her book.

    The darker the urine, the better I feel.
     
  4. rlc

    rlc Senior Member

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    hi Kday most B vitamins cause Yellow urine. The reason it dosen't turn your urine yellow for many hour's is that it has to be processed by the body so it can take a long time for it to come out the other end. its also why it can take a few days for the body to get rid of it link about it here http://www.catie.ca/supple-e.nsf/07...4b64d2585c1a5e0b852568b70057e308!OpenDocument yellow urine means your taking more then your body can absorb, however it's interesting that your feeling better on it, have you ever had your B12 and folate blood tests done, if not it's possible that you are deficient in one of these and that what your doing is treating it. if it is B12 deficiency your doctor can test and treat it with injections and you'll be feeling better very quickly and you can save the money your spending on vitamins for something else, if you've had your B12 tested before and been told it was fine it might not be, alot of labs use a referance range that say below 160 show deficiency, new research shows it should be above 300 so it might of been missed links about b12 here http://vitamins.lovetoknow.com/Vitamin_B12_Deficiency_Symptoms and here http://www.essortment.com/all/vitaminbdefi_rndj.htm if your taking large amount of b12 it can have side effects see here http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Side-Effects-Of-Vitamin-B12&id=816035 and so can most supliments so be careful, best if you can get your doctor to measure your levels to make sure that they get high enough to solve the problem link about folate deficiency here http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec12/ch154/ch154b.html i'm not a doctor but your tests apear to show you don't have a virus with the possible exception of varicella but these tests are very complicated and need to be interperated by an expert, a high IgM or IgG can just be a sign of a past infection, varicella normaly has very obvious symptoms if it active see here http://www.arupconsult.com/Topics/VZV.html hope this helps all the best
     
  5. kday

    kday Senior Member

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    I'm well aware B vitamins cause yellow urine. I've taken B vitamins many times in the past. Thanks for your reply though.

    My urine comes out heavily concentrated with a high specific gravity and is not a b vitamin color and is not the orange/reddish color you get after mixing a B complex with MB12. All of that is observed before the color changes in my urine that I speak of.

    I guess I'll have to get some strips that measure creatinine (my current strips do not) to determine if the dark yellow color is associated with a chronic viral infection die-off. Of course elevated creatinine doesn't mean it's viral, but it's a good hint.
     
  6. Athene

    Athene ihateticks.me

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    If you're sure you're not doing Vitamin P, then I would definitely get a full urine analysis. Dark urine can indicate various things wrong with the kidneys or other organs, I believe.
     
  7. kday

    kday Senior Member

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    That's already been done. Negative. It's only dark when on supplements, and I feel so much better when it's dark. After a few days it goes pretty clear.

    I know my case is rare around here (searched everywhere), but when I looked hard enough, Dr. Amy Yasko says she sees it in some patients with Autism.
     
  8. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, kday.

    I don't know how long you have been ill, but according to my hypothesis (based initially on research on autism), the partial block in the methylation cycle and glutathione depletion cause both the detoxication system and the immune system to be dysfunctional during the course of M.E./CFS. As a result of the contuing exposures to toxins and pathogens, these build up in the body over time, since they are not being taken out at normal rates. When treatment to lift the partial block in the methylation cycle is initiated, both the detox system and the immune system begin to operate more normally. The result is that they go to work on the backlogs of toxins and pathogens in the body. This mobilizes a variety of toxins into the bloodstream. Some of them are filtered out by the kidneys and excreted into the urine, while others are taken out by the liver and excreted in the bile, and thence into the stools.

    I don't know what is causing the darker color of your urine. It could be excreted toxins, either from stored toxins or from the breakdown of pathogens or cells infected with pathogens (such as viruses). It would be interesting to know whether you have been exposed to an unusual toxin during the course of your illness, which is different from the toxins others have accumulated.

    In any case, I'm glad that the treatment you are doing is helping you to feel better. If my hypothesis is correct, over time the toxins should become depleted and the pathogens should be knocked out as well. It does take quite a long time, though, because these are normally "housekeeping" systems that have gotten behind in their "housekeeping," and they are not able to operate at very high rates. It therefore takes a long time
    to work off the backlog. If one tries to go faster with detox, it raises the concentrations of the toxins in the blood, bathing all the cells in these toxins, and the resulting symptoms become more intense and more difficult to tolerate.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  9. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    I experienced dark, strong-smelling urine sometime during the first 2-3 weeks of starting Rich's methylation protocol. It was intermittent, and has since disappeared. Its timing and intermittent nature suggests that it was not produced by the B-vitamins or other supplements. I also had a precedent for this back when I first started taking probiotics. After only about 3-4 days of modest amounts of probiotics l precipitated a major herx reaction with fever, kidney pain, and all kinds of nasty symptoms including dark urine. (This came out of nowhere and I was only taking vit C & maybe some coq-10) In my opinion, what you have experienced may be associated with a bacterial/yeast die off. I'm not sure why you are associating this with a viral etiology; dysbiosis is probably more likely.
     
  10. Joopiter76

    Joopiter76 Senior Member

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    Hi, I can confirm this, it starts suddenly after some time, but it may stop and restart without a direct reason. The red/orange colour may also come from B12 if you really take 25mg this is no wonder.
     
  11. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    I have a multi-vitamin that I take from Vitacost and I like it a lot. However if I take it according to the directions I will get dark brown urine and it will sink to the bottom of the toilet within 5 mins as if it is completely seperated from the water. This can occur from 2 - 10 hours after taking these vitamins. I've tried stopping and starting it and them 4 or 5 times and it is 100% related to me taking these vitamins. Have had urinalysis (a typical one at GP's office) and everything is normal - i.e. SG, protein and etc...

    I have read that some of this can be related to thiamine and the liver processing it, but I'm sure that has been covered here.
     
  12. Joopiter76

    Joopiter76 Senior Member

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    you should support your Liver and kidneys with some organ containing products as well as dandelion, silymarine and cranberrry for the kidneys. This is what yasko suggests and some more, but these are the main things.
     
  13. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    Hey Joopiter76

    What would be an example of organ containing products? Glandulars that contain liver and kidney? Is there a product that you recommend or know to be of good quality?

    Thanks
     
  14. kday

    kday Senior Member

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    I am on a kidney support supplement/natural diuretic that was suggested by my ND. It seems to work as advertised most of the time.

    When I push doses to 25 mg IM, I feel better than 12.5 mg but I can retain fluid. My experience doesn't match anything that I read. I think I am pretty unique, and I can't figure out why.

    Also, the more I am detoxing, the better I feel. Not the opposite. While it's definitely not good, I feel better even when my kidneys are backlogged with whatever crap is coming out of my body.

    I did have some proteinuria when I was pushing things too hard, and backing off of supplements for a while fixed that. I keep a close eye on my kidneys now, but other than that, the test results have been unremarkable for the most part.

    Perhaps I'll go down to 12.5 mg all the time, but there is a noticeable and sometimes profound difference in the way I feel when I take 25 mg.

    Unfortunately sublingual pills (even at a high dose) don't do anything for me. Only shots work. Not sure why.

    Thanks Rich and everyone else for your replies.
     
  15. Joopiter76

    Joopiter76 Senior Member

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    August59:
    I had a product called Adrenergize (has a blue label) that contains a mix from adrenal gland, liver and kidney. Now I have a product called Raw Thyroid which contains concentrate from Thyroid, Adrenals, pituitary, thymus, spleen. I think I will ad in concentrate of Liver and Kidney. so I support most of the improtant organs. If you look here, which is the shop from Dr. Yasko you find the organ products she uses. (starting with ora) http://www.holisticheal.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=ora
     
  16. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Another thought to consider (if not already) is Adrenal dysfunction. When my urine turned deep orange tests showed high potassium levels which is a sign. Liquorice is said to support. When dark and malodorous I assumed infection Bladder/Kidneys etc. and have been taking Olive Leaf extract said to be high in natural antivirals. Settled down for the moment. We are all on "DIY" things here.
     
  17. kday

    kday Senior Member

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    Well, I did some rapid chelation/detox through my CFS doctor (which made me feel bad for a while) and continued the methylation protocol. I guess I had mercury, copper, and aluminum toxicity.

    Anyway, I am detoxing like crazy now. No methylation supplements needed. Everything is ok, but my ALT liver enzymes is a few points above normal. Kidneys are fine.

    Still the same symptoms as before except now my body is being flooded with this stuff and I have to drink tons of water to dilute the toxins so my body can keep up. As long as I keep diluting, I don't retain fluid

    Completely stopped B12, folate, P5P, etc because I don't think I want to push detox faster than my body wants to do it on its own. I can't find anyone with the same type of detox symptoms, so I think I remain unique. Oh, and the more I detox, the better I feel. Not the opposite.

    I am noticably feeling better day to day. I kept track of my lunulae (half moons) on my fingers for a long time now. Methylation brought them back some, but when I stopped the supplements for a bit, they would start disappearing again. Now they are coming back on their own (large and white). Before methylation I literally had no lunulae unless I pulled down skin on my thumbs. Now they are appearing on other fingers besides my thumbs (index and middle).

    My anxiety and CNS issues are getting a lot better. Nothing is perfect yet, but for the first time, I honestly think I can say I am on the road to recovery. I don't run, exercise, or even drive much yet, but my energy is good. I make it through whole days without having to lie down or nap on a bed or couch.

    I do have the controversial diagnosis of chronic Lyme, and treating that with IV antibiotics and colloidal silver has been huge for me. I'm off antibiotics right now, but then I am going to herbal and oral abx. I think the heavy metal detox from my CFS doctor has also been huge.

    Family, friends, and relatives have have all commented how much better I am. People that haven't seen me in a while are amazed since I can participate in normal life (even without needing a ride home).

    I never had a test for XMRV. I had the VO2 bike test (which I did very bad on as I was in the 1 percentile) and lots of abnormal labwork. The tests indicated moderate to severe CFS and physical and neuropsychological (I don't think the word mental applies) disability.

    I'm 24, and while I'm not out of the woods, I am out of the dungeon. I gained a lot of weight for some reason, but oh well. I am feeling better, and that's what counts. I think I can beat this thing. I still feel much worse twice a month (Lyme flare and herx). And no it's not hormones since I am a male. :)

    Hope to all!
     
  18. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, kday.

    I'm glad to hear that things are moving in a good direction for you. Here's hoping for complete recovery!

    Rich
     
  19. tahoma

    tahoma

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    kday:

    Mind sharing what type of chelation protocol you did/are doing? Thanks, and glad you are progressing...

    Tahoma
     
  20. ecenur

    ecenur

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    I am also using colloidal gold for my gum disease, I also use it for a lot of other things from my pets to my plants to when I have a really bad cold. I use it for a variety of different things, which is why I am looking into making my own home maid colloidal silver has anyone ever tried to do this? I am wondering if it is easy to make and if works as effectively.
     

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