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B12 making me sleeeepy - serotonin?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by frolic, Mar 7, 2014.

  1. frolic

    frolic

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    I've been on Fredd's P for a few months. Experienced energy (!) at first, now having a real problem with sleep. Wake up feeling good, but crash within a few hours in a way I usually don't. After 4-5 hours of additional sleep, I wake up refreshed. My sleep cycle is tightly controlled with dawn simulation and light boxes. Except for the new naps, it has not changed any.

    Was reading around last night and found a post about B12+melatonin/serotonin, describing the "heavy headed" fatigue I'm experiencing. It's not brain fog - it's... like a mental thud.

    This could explain my sleep problem. I've been on SSRIs for seasonal affective and experienced similar sleep comas. I am definitely a low-dopamine/undermethylated type - being chemically "overstimulated" just does not happen. By anything. Ever.

    My Q: how do I mitigate the sleepiness and proceed with B12? I've worked up to 5mg/day of mb12 and recently added adb12. I take metafolin as directed, but kinda think I might feel better without it. Hard to tell and don't fully understand its role with my mutations. Also taking recommended cofactors (alcar/zinc/sam-e). In the past, alcar has been mildly activating. Just added in carnitine to see if anything magical happens.

    My serum B12 has always been quite high, without any supplementation & on a vegetarian diet (I now eat meat). MCV also elevated, though no doctor has ever been concerned about that either.

    23&me says:

    VDR taq +/+
    COMT v158m +/+
    COMT h63h +/+
    MTRR a66g +/+
    MTHFR a128c +/-
    BHMT 2 +/+
    BHMT 4 +/+
    BHMT 8 +/+
    CBS c699t +/-

    I've been trying to understand all this, but my brain just isn't getting it. THANK YOU for any help.
     
  2. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    If you're certain that B12 is causing the sleepiness, shift your timings and take it at night? From what I have read and experienced, it does seem like a melatonin issue. Some also say that sleep is a good sign, particularly if the body is stressed, and that it promotes healing.

    I don't know about mutations, so can't say about that. Though I have and do face sleepiness from most of the methyl-b12 brands, except for Solgar - which gives me energy. If I were you, I'd try another brand or change my b12 timings.

    Also, I think the increase in need for potassium, magnesium and other co-factors could also contribute to the sleepiness
     
  3. Star-Anise

    Star-Anise Senior Member

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    @frolic
    hmmm I wonder if it is:
    I definitely experienced increase in fatigue when I added adb12
    Here's a thread where I discussed it. It's heading is about carnitine, but I noticed it was the adenosyl too. For me it was relative hypoglycemia which is related to my weaker adrenal glands...
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/carnitine-more-fatigue.27832/
    But when I just titrated more slowly, I would say after 3 months, there is very little fatigue, and astoundingly more energy, & stamina.
    S
     
  4. frolic

    frolic

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    I'm not sure it's the B12, but don't have any other theories at the moment :/ I went through 2/3 of a bottle before the problem started, so I don't think it's the brand. Tho maybe that means it's not the methyl B either?

    @Star-Anise, I'll try backing off the adb12. The sleep comas started before I began taking it, but maybe it's not helping anything. "Astoundingly more energy, & stamina" sounds *awesome*.

    THANKS
     
  5. Star-Anise

    Star-Anise Senior Member

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    @frolic
    yes, as well I see you are
    COMT v158m +/+
    COMT h63h +/+
    All I know is that I have to be careful with my husband who has same snp with the mB12. It causes increased somnolence for him too. I just back off, but to be honest I haven't found an optimal dose. He's definitely one of the classic COMT +/+ methyl sensitive types.
    You ask a good question about mfolate. I'm sure people will have various opinions about it, but I see you are MTHFR a128c +/-, I remember reading on Lynch's site that some people with that mutation don't need as much mfolate. How much are you currently taking? Again my husband is quite sensitive to that as well... funny, the adenosyl worked the best with him, but it caused him to have this super sore, & swollen lymph nodes, so I backed off for now. He's going to get his mercury fillings removed soon, which I'm quite sure is causing some havoc for him, but that's my opinion - again another controversial topic :)
    Just some thoughts,.... S
     
  6. frolic

    frolic

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    From what I understand, my +/+ VDR Taq-ness makes the COMT +/+ behave more like -/- . Which means I should, in theory, need more methyl donors. Like most of this, is not entirely clear to me.

    I've been taking 400mcg mfolate 2x a day (along with the mB12). I'm terrible at tracking all this stuff, but I've always ended up dropping the mfolate for some reason. Years ago a psych prescribed Deplin as an adjunct to antidepressant meds and it didn't do much. I very rarely experience any sort of noticeable reaction to things; ALCAR, mb12 and wellbutrin are/were activating - that's about it. Anything that's supposed to "calm" or "relax" is completely off-limits though. It's like entering a coma.

    Curious about your husband's fillings. Did he test high for mercury? I have my share of amalgams but my serum levels didn't raise any concern. I had some mercury present (not great) but not enough to cause problems. Again, in theory.
     
  7. Star-Anise

    Star-Anise Senior Member

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    @frolic
    hey there, hmmm, that could be re: VDR. My husband is +/- for that, so perhaps it makes a difference if you are -/-. These genetics aren't one-size-fits all anyhow, and everyone could have different expressions even with similar snps...
    He does have this same reaction to things:
    But he's not at all susceptible to calming agents either.
    I have always attributed that resistance or perhaps resilience to his COMT +/+ statuses. I have spoken to others that have the COMT +/+ snps and they report similar traits. They also seem to have this ability to push themselves physically, mentally and such and then tend to crash. I notice that when I'm done, I'm done. I have very little reserve. I know that is related to adrenals as well, but I think COMT status & dopamine are involved.
    I used to respond in a coma way to things that that involved activating serotonin. If I took the slightest amount of 5-HTP, or Tryptophan I would be so groggy and drugged feeling the next day. I have a MAO +/+ mutation and I think mine is definitely activated & my receptors get overwhelmed easily & flooded (that's my non-medical person's description). I now split a 50mg tablet into 8ths and I take 1/8th twice per day of 5-HTP, and 500 mg of Tryptophan at night. But I had to work up to that.

    I haven't had his mercury levels tested yet. I just sent my hair analysis away yesterday. So I'm curious about mine as I had several mercury fillings since childhood, & I felt so much better after getting them removed. I found I couldn't proceed with methylation supplements beyond micro-levels until about a month after getting the last two fillings out. I'm hoping that my husband will have a similar response. I'll keep everyone in the loop about what we find out. He's likely going to get them removed this spring.

    S
     

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