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B12 induced crash? Electrolyte Imbalance?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by arx, Aug 27, 2013.

  1. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Hi,

    I was on Fred's protocol for 7 months till Nov' 2012. So I have a fair idea about B12. My health is better now and I haven't taken B12 for 4 months or so. 3 days back I took 1000 mcg of Enzymatic Therapy MB12. I thought I'd take it every week or so,you know, as a maintenance dose, so that I'm always at the upper limit of the flawed serum B12 test.

    Anyways,my concern is that after I took that B12, I've been experiencing significant loss in energy(both physical and mental),muscle pain and light spasms,no refreshing sleep and it feels that I can't even get out of bed. Now, as per my previous knowledge, it seems like potassium is needed, as this could be B12 induced hypokalemia. I haven't got a test done,so it's all speculation. It's quite hot and humid here and I sweat A LOT.

    So, I took B12 3 days back, and have taken about 600 mg of potassium and some magnesium after I got these symptoms. Should I keep taking potassium? Or could it be another issue?

    Thanks.

    Regards,
    arx.
  2. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Hi arx. I can only tell you my experience w/ potassium. I've also been on the protocol fully for 5 months. I feel fortunate that I've had so few hiccups (once got onto overmethylation w/ too much B12, then did the same w/ excess mfolate). First, I would be lost w/o being able to self-test for supplements. I strongly suggest you check out youtube muscle testing, or self-testing. Even if you don't trust it initially, it will grow w/ you.

    I've been taking K+ for a number of years. For 3-4 years I've been using K+ gluconate powder. When I get muscle cramps and spasms it's usually low mg. Someone who seemed to know posted that right sided cramps are low mg, left sided are potassium. That sounds a bit too simplistic to me, given what I know about my own idiosyncracies.

    Freddd posted about hypokalemia:
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...kalemia-and-methylfolate-insufficiency.22968/

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/getting-back-to-balance.24134/ July 2013 Fred re role of Bvitamins

    I take a minimum of 3g K+ 2xday. That's my baseline, has been for some time, pre-Freddd, pre-GAPS diet. Now I've been detoxxing metals and adding in some Yasko RNA formulas, and my need has skyrocketed. It didn't help that I was inadvertently getting too much salt, but the need persisted beyond the salt. My symptoms are different from yours. My heart pounds, not necessarily racing, but strong, a sense of breathlessness, heartburn. I'd begun using bicarb for my occasional heartburn, but then got it that this was K+, and I've always responded to it. This led me, just a few weeks ago, after all these years, to get it that at my worst, my primary symptoms were hypokalemia: feeling faint, unable to feel confident to walk even 1 block, fearing I'd fall: both balance and light-headedness. My GP never tested or had any response to these worrying things. Now that I understand how critical it is for me, I'm intending to get a medi-alert badge.

    Especially hot, humid, and sweating. Take some more. Make an electrolyte drink w/ salt, K+, lemon or lime, just enough to be tasty, not medicinal, and drink through the day. You might try mg and K+ both, or alternate after an hour or 2, to see what works. Are you taking the other 2 Deadlock components: AdenoB12, L Carnitine Fumarate? I found that each of the 4 increased my healing. OK, to close I'll add another post from Freddd. Best to you, ahmo

  3. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Thanks ahmo. I am NOT on Fred's protocol. Also,I have read those threads. Thanks for reminding me again. :)

    My question is that could ONE MB12 sublingual cause such a massive change? When I was on his protocol I was taking 2.5 g of Potassium and some Magnesium. But this was just one ET sublingual. Total crash. Don't know what to make of it?!!
  4. juniemarie

    juniemarie Senior Member

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    arx may I ask why you stopped Freds protocol? Was it causing you problems? From reading the posts here about peoples reaction to b12 its seems extremely common for people to get crashes after starting on b12 on even less amounts
  5. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    OK, so my long-winded explanation missed the point: you're NOT on the protocol. I don't have an answer to your question re WHY the crash. Hope you clarify this soon. cheers, ahmo
    arx likes this.
  6. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

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    I just went through a rough period after stopping SMP and it took me two months to figure it out. I was/am dealing with the MethylTrap. I started taking small doses of MB12 only (no folate) which helped significantly for a while. I started having other symptoms that are relieved by a small amount of mfolate every 2-3 days. I need more Mb12 than folate I believe because I have 2 MTRR+/+ mutations. Depending on your genetics you might not need to supplement one or the other or one as much as the other. For me taking equal doses of MFolate and MB12 seems to have depleted me of MB12. Taking my current dose of only MB12 seems to leave me needing Mfolate. My trick will be to find the correct balance (which will be much more MB12 than folate) which I'm optimistic about.

    Another big help for me was taking my minerals. I found I needed a lot more Magnesium when I was MB12 deficient. I was having a HELL of a time getting myself out of bed. Leaving the minerals by the bedside helped so I could just take them, roll over and wait. In about 15 mins or so I usually felt good enough to get up. Small dose of pregnenolone helped also in the morning.

    Anyway, you can find a more detailed explanation of what is working for me in my blog.
  7. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    sregan my experience is similar to what you are experiencing. I need moire mb12. I am currently experimenting with different doses. I'm not sure I even need Metafolin at this point. I feel better without it.

    I have increased my magnesium intake significantly and this has been very helpful.
    Crux likes this.
  8. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Hi Arx;

    It could be that old 'start up' feeling, again. Enzymatic Therapy is strong.

    I'm not getting the start up anymore, even with monster doses of B12.

    I wonder if part of the start up is from excess folate being used.
  9. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    I didn't have the patience to do it anymore. I was only getting worse,not better. Worse to more worse..
    Till MB12 and ADB12 it was bearable. But with carnitine, extreme physical and mental agitation ensued.
    If I have to do it again, I'd go through the 23andMe route.
  10. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Possibly. I hope it goes away. I took B12 after months.
    Yesterday evening I took some potassium,magnesium,banana, and some proteins and electrolyte sources. It made me a bit better. So I hope it passes.
    Nice to see you here after a long time,Crux! :)
    Crux likes this.
  11. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Yeah, I realized yesterday that a lot of minerals were required! I hope it works out in some days. Link me to your blog?
  12. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Hi arx;
    Good to see you too!
    I don't remember if you tried hydroxocobalamin, for many, it's not overstimulating.
    I think it's a good idea to do the 23andme, it can help to guide. Then you can take a dip into the morass of genetics!:confused:
  13. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

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    arx

    Oh, it's just on the "blog" tab up above. Here is a link
  14. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

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    Crux, I'm a beginner at this. I've read about the startup a few times. Would you mind briefly explaining the startup and what it feels like?
  15. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Hi sregan;
    Since the term 'startup', is Freddd's invention, describing some of the feelings one may have when beginning the protocol, I'll defer to this link: http://forums.bettermedicine.com/showthread.php/62327-active-b12-basics

    I've had some of these feelings many times from reducing my B12 dose, then getting deficiency symptoms, then increasing again.

    I'll feel increased mental energy, even anxiety for a time. My sleep will be delayed by an hour or two. (Increased physical energy is slow to happen, so I don't include it in my own startup effects.)

    Muscle pain, cramping, seem to be from the need for potassium and magnesium, as you've described.

    I've read of some people feeling tired from taking B12, so I think it could be an initial reaction. Some people get headaches after an injection, or high dosage.
    sregan likes this.
  16. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

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    Crux
    Wow, that is some link! Thank you!
  17. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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