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b12 feeds candida?

Discussion in 'Fungal Infection (Yeast, Candida)' started by BBecOU, Jan 31, 2016.

  1. BBecOU

    BBecOU

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    So I'm new to the forum and I have some questions regarding candida, methylation and b12. I've always had digestive issues and I'm 100% certain I have an overgrowth of candida. About a month ago I began supplementing Methyl B12 lozenges in an attempt to kickstart my methylation cycle. At first they seemed like a God send and gave me enormous amounts of energy. They still give me energy, but I've noticed my digestion has kinda gotten worse and my candida symptoms seem to be flaring up again. Does B12 feed candida? Should you focus on eliminating candida before you focus on methylating properly or is it best to focus on methylation first? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!
     
  2. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    Just a thought but the sublibguals have a sweetener. So that might be causing a problem. I found different mb12's use different sweeteners.
     
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  3. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    I too have had (and still have) lots of digestive issues, and similarly noticed that my sympotms matched those listed for candida.

    In actuality all tests I have done for all sorts of yeasts are all perfectly negative so I think the problem with those lists of symptoms is two fold:

    a) they are too generic and could work for many other conditions
    b) digestive issues such as dysbiosis, SIBO, IBS etc... have many symptoms in common and it's difficult to tell them apart, unless maybe with specific tests.

    I second @minkeygirl suggestion... some B12 supplements are overloaded with sugars. One example is the often praised Enzymatic Therapy Methyl-B12 1mg tablets. I've used them for quite some time and they eventually started to upset my digestion and worsen my SIBO.

    It turns out there's nothing wrong with B12 but it's in fact the sheer amount of fructose they add which is terrible, especially when you need 5-10 of those tabs a day.

    I quit Enzymatic T. last year and I am now using Solgar's Methyl-B12 5mg, so i just need a couple of them and they contain very little sugar.

    cheers
     
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  4. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    @PeterPositive I remember that the one freddd recommends, The Enzymatic Therapy B12 Infusion has sucrose or some "ose' in it. But Jarrow (i think) has something else that is not as bad. Xylitol? Sorry I just can't remember.

    You have to read the labels.
     
  5. BBecOU

    BBecOU

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    The brand I use is from Seeking Health because I trust their products. They use Xylitol and thats about it. I only take 2 lozenges a day and for some reason I wouldn't think that 2 lozenges would have any significant impact on my digestive issues, but who knows. Perhaps whats happening is that I''m just improving methylation and experiencing some start up symptoms. At least thats what I hope!
     
  6. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    In my personal experience an unbalance in the vit B levels can lead to mineral unbalances and (subclinical) anemia and that can cause a candida flare and/or oxalate sympotms. So if you are supplementing high dose of one B vit you might drive a need for other Bs and minerals needed in RBC synthesis.
     
  7. BBecOU

    BBecOU

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    Thats probably my problem and I have yet to find a way around this. I don't tolerate B Vitamins well at all. Every time I ingest a B Complex, some symptoms improve, but the main ones I'm actually trying to cure get 100x worse. As of now, I only supplement with a MethylFolate/MethylB12 sublingual. By supplementing with just that I know I'm driving the need for other B Vitamins, but like I said previously, B's give me problems. At this point I'm literally clueless.
     
  8. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    The link in my sig "Balancing nutrients" has been helping me a lot in the past 2 years regarding symptoms x vitamins and minerals
     
  9. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Enzymatic uses fructose and mannitol, but I don't mind mannitol. Fructose can be bad if excessive especially for SIBO.

    Country Life uses xylitol which doesn't bother me but it's no longer effective, at least for me. I do well with Solgar 5mg (which uses very little sugar) and Source Naturals 5mg.

    Jarrow I have no idea, never used it.

    cheers
     
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  10. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    It sounds like my experience in many ways.
    With the digestive issues I have struggled for years taking B vitamins (which I needed) but could not take in oral form. They would just cause more digestive distress and on top of that I was too sensitive to the vitamins themselves causing agitation and anxiety.

    I stopped trying because I was getting too many side effects but eventually became very deficient and this helped one of my major crashes.

    After that I started investigating again and I tried sublingual B complexes. There isn't much choice in terms of products because few companies make a full sublingual B complex, but these two worked for me:

    http://www.iherb.com/source-naturals-coenzymate-b-complex-orange-flavored-sublingual-60-tablets/1048
    http://www.supersmart.com/en--Vitamins--Coenzymated-B-Formula--0540

    The Source Naturals contains synthetic folic acid but it worked for me anyways and I have the double MTHFR mutation. Taste is good and it's not too sweet.

    The Supersmart product is stronger and I typically just take 1/2 lozenge a day, it uses folinic acid as folate and it's probably more complete in terms of ingredients. It doesn't taste so good, but I got used to it. :)

    Both of these product don't affect my digestion so I could start taking them. Initially I cut the lozenges into quarters and eventually I increased to a full dose.

    good luck
     
  11. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    With any b-complex, it's the b6 (or even p5p) that gets me every time. Within 2 days I develop light neuropathy in my toes, and sometimes even RLS and/or leg/feet jerking as a result. This has been going on for about five years, can't figure it out, but think it has something to do with an oxalate issue (which was confirmed w/tests).

    And oxalates are rough on the digestive tract. Also one can produce endogenous oxalates, which is another novel, but this is often connected to high-ish carb, sugar, fructose intake.

    Mannitol can increase histamine, just FYI.
     
  12. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    We've had a few conversations about how some pathogens feed off of B12. This is from a convo I had with @Gondwanaland :

    T.B. may steal your B12:

    "While this may not entirely ablate B12 biosynthesis [it has been suggested that alternative methyltransferases might partially compensate for the loss of CobF (Rodionov et al., 2003; Gopinath et al., 2013a)], it suggests that M. tuberculosis may have come to rely on the host environment as a source of vitamin" (Young et. al, 2015).

    E. coli steals B12:

    "E.coli is thought to be unable to synthesize this vitamin (19a). Typically, bacteria use B12 from the environment" (Sampson, 1992).

    As do some kinds of Yersinia:

    "Y. pseudotuberculosis is vitamin B12 dependent and uptake is known to occur" (Hinchliffe, 2003).

    On the other hand, there are bacteria that produce their own B12 and do not, therefore, have to scavenge it from the host.

    As it turns out, candida also grows better in the presence of B12. That is an article from the 1960s that determined that
    Old article, but seems to have been performed logically, though in vitro.

    If some sorts of infection sequester B12, that means your own cells don't have enough to do their jobs, which means you need to take more B12, which helps your cells while feeding the infection in question. Talk about your vicious cycles!

    -J
     
  13. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Paradoxically, when I first took MB12 it got rid for good of a tiny toenail fungus I had for years.
     
  14. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    Not so paradoxically. :) If you have low B12, your immune system will definitely not work well. But if you have too much B12, it may feed pathogens.

    Thinking of the above study, the fact that it's in vitro means a great deal. It's not as though we actually bathe our cells in a solution of B12; there are small amounts in our blood. So while high B12 over a long period of time might predispose someone to fungal infection -- and that's a big 'might' -- taking a B12 supplement to maintain normal B12 levels / activity likely wouldn't.

    All speculation, like everything we write here. ;)

    -J
     
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  15. Deltrus

    Deltrus Senior Member

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    Sometimes in b12 therapy your nerves get more sensitive and problems seem worse. Perhaps that is happening to you with your intestinal nerves?

    Also I often experience gut overgrowth on b12 protocols because of potassium and magnesium deficiencies. Both are needed for proper gut motility.
     

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