B12 effect starting and stopping

[Gondwanaland]

My mB12 start up showed me that I can be happy again someday... hopefully soon
P.S.
Wax and wane = detox and retox. I am looking into how to address that.

 

[Ninan]

I hope so too. How long did the start up effect last?

The thing for me is that if I lose all effect I can't continue experimenting. I get too sick, I can't surf the net, can't read at all. So I hope that won't happen.

The wax and wane for me is not so much wax en wane but more that I get it working and then the effect wears off. I change something, add vitamins, and it works again. But only for so long. Is that normal procedure?

 

[Gondwanaland]

Methyl B12 shots, 5 mg every three days
Jarrow formulas B12 5 mg every other day (just to get more types of B12)
Enzymatic Therapy B12 1 mg every other day (just to get more types of B12)
Dibencozide, Source Naturals, every three days
C-vit 4000 mg (trying at least, it's pretty... well acid)
Thorne Basic B complex 3 capsules a day (it contains all the metafolin I've needed recently but not as many kinds of B-vitamins as Jarrow's B right)
Gamma E complex, max dose
D3 5000 IU
NOW Full Spectrum Mineral Caps, maximum dose
Zink 50 mg
Selenium 50 mg
Vitamin A från fish liver oil, 25 000 IU, one capsule every other day
ALC 300 mg in morning (I get too much energy if I take more)
Fish oil, 1 tsp
Potassium, 500 mg

I can't comment on your B12 doses b/c personally I tolerate much less that that.

Why don't you try a buffered vit C? Or try to find out if you do better with less than that?

Gamma E is a good antioxidant. You might reduce it for now that you have too much of vit A in your system. Take for instance 1 capsule 3x a week. Afterwards you can increase to every other day, and you think it's good, take 5x a week or everyday.

Vit D do you know what your blood levels are? - vit D supplementation is a tricky one. For me it increases the need for magnesium and vit K2

Zinc and Slenium - I take less Zn and more Se than that, but I don't know about your personal needs.

ALC - I haven't taken it so far

Fish oil - 1 capsule per day is enough for my inflammation levels

Potassium - this one can vary significantly from one day to another

Be sure to read the roadblocks to methylation. I hope others with more experience will chime in.

 

[Ninan]

I can't comment on your B12 doses b/c personally I tolerate much less that that.

Why don't you try a buffered vit C? Or try to find out if you do better with less than that?

Gamma E is a good antioxidant. You might reduce it for now that you have too much of vit A in your system. Take for instance 1 capsule 3x a week. Afterwards you can increase to every other day, and you think it's good, take 5x a week or everyday.

Vit D do you know what your blood levels are? - vit D supplementation is a tricky one. For me it increases the need for magnesium and vit K2

Zinc and Slenium - I take less Zn and more Se than that, but I don't know about your personal needs.

ALC - I haven't taken it so far

Fish oil - 1 capsule per day is enough for my inflammation levels

Potassium - this one can vary significantly from one day to another

Be sure to read the roadblocks to methylation. I hope others with more experience will chime in.

Realized I'm actually taking double that, 10 mg every three days. I've tolerated much more before but it seems the more I take the sooner the effect wears off.

Looked up buffered vit C. Better for digestion, that's good. I might order that next time. For now I'm doing ok, I'm taking a teaspoon a day (about 5 mgs).

My vit D levels have always been low. I'll follow your advice on the E vit, I didn't take any today. Waiting for the nausea to go away. With all the almonds etc that I eat (paleo, more or less) it's really no wonder I don't need that much of vit A and E.

I read about the Self muscle testing. Do you use it? Does it really work? I have trouble looking at videos, I'm going down pretty quickly now. Going to up the metafolin a bit, that usually helps. For a couple of days, at least.

 

[Ninan]

My journey so far (I added this to my first post too):

2007-2011: I took B12 during this time, without folate, and had great effect. But I had to increase the dose regularly to keep the effect. From pills to shots to methyl shots and after four years of being able to work etc I was taking as much as 20 mgs of methyl B12/day and the effect was wearing off completely. I tried to get it to work again on freddds protocol but I think I gave up to quickly. Then I had three years of no B12 effect

2014: I started with B12 and folate i August after half a year of taking multivitamins. Again, I had great effect. At the same time I was taking multiminerals (Mivototal plus). After a month or so I started taking less multi minerals and the effect from B12 wore off. I had to take more folate to keep at least some of my energy.

When I realized what was happening I started taking more multi vitamin and added one Jarrow's B right a day. I also took more Vit C and Vit D, zink and selenium. After just three days the effect was back. It was so strong I had to quit all extra folate all together for a few days.

Then I took only multivitamins for a few days and the effect started disappearing again. I took more and then changed to my current protocol, mostly according to freddds recommendations. After just a few days I was feeling better again - the first shot worked fine. Now, one week later: Even though I continued the same protocol, the effect is wearing off again and I'm not sure what to do.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I think it is a question of balancing with cofactors.

 

[Ninan]

I think it is a question of balancing with cofactors.

Ok. I'll cut down on some of it and see what happens.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Ok. I'll cut down on some of it and see what happens.

I think that when the effect wears off there is some cofactor missing or getting quickly depleted by methylation.

I don't think I can trust my self-testing, I go more via understanding what is happening, so I never stop researching. This way is kinda energy draining and stressful though...

 

[Ninan]

I think that when the effect wears off there is some cofactor missing or getting quickly depleted by methylation.

Probably. But there are so many. Just have to keep trying, I guess. At least the effect seems to come in just a few days when I change the doses.

I don't think I can trust my self-testing, I go more via understanding what is happening, so I never stop researching. This way is kinda energy draining and stressful though...

It is. How long has it been since you started experimenting?

 

[Gondwanaland]

I started last January

 

[Ninan]

I started last January

Ok. Hope you find the right combo soon.

 

[NilaJones]

You are doing a couple of things that got me into trouble .

1. Taking zinc but not copper. (I assume there is not much copper in your multimineral.) For that much zinc you will need around 400 copper -- which is a heck of a lot. You might be able to get by with half the zinc, and 200 copper. Take them at different times of day, or alternate days. Take the copper in multiple small doses with food, as it can make you nauseous otherwise. It's really important, though.

2. Getting your vit D to 75-100 will be good, at least it was for me. But past that, you can develop a very dangerous level of blood calcium. I did that, too. Get yourself tested every few months, don't overshoot.

Re: potassium, you need 4,000-5,000 mg per day for normal life, and probably more for methylation protocols. How much are you getting from food? Can you add dried apricots, coconut water, carrot juice, potatoes, and other high potassium foods to your diet? Or do foot soaks?

I see you have no lecithin. Might help -- it did for me.

 

[pela]

Jarrow B right contains folic acid which could be causing you harm.

 

[Ninan]

1. Taking zinc but not copper. (I assume there is not much copper in your multimineral.) For that much zinc you will need around 400 copper -- which is a heck of a lot. You might be able to get by with half the zinc, and 200 copper. Take them at different times of day, or alternate days. Take the copper in multiple small doses with food, as it can make you nauseous otherwise. It's really important, though.

There's 2 mgs of copper in my daily mineral dose. I've heard so many people reacting badly to it. Maybe I should check my levels?

2. Getting your vit D to 75-100 will be good, at least it was for me. But past that, you can develop a very dangerous level of blood calcium. I did that, too. Get yourself tested every few months, don't overshoot.

I'm getting tests done soon. I was 36 before I started vit D supps, then 59 this spring.

Re: potassium, you need 4,000-5,000 mg per day for normal life, and probably more for methylation protocols. How much are you getting from food? Can you add dried apricots, coconut water, carrot juice, potatoes, and other high potassium foods to your diet? Or do foot soaks?

I used to count and found I get around 2500/day with food. No foot soaks. So I guess I get around 3500. I'm going to check those levels too, they have been low in the past.

I bought lecithin but then I read somewhere that it could cause heart attacks. So the bottle stands full and all alone in my fridge.

 

[NilaJones]

I used to count and found I get around 2500/day with food. No foot soaks. So I guess I get around 3500. I'm going to check those levels too, they have been low in the past.

Ok, that sounds like it could be the culprit, then -- you are not even getting the RDA amount.

Although I gotta say, every time I think potassium is my problem it turns out to be something else .

I bought lecithin but then I read somewhere that it could cause heart attacks. So the bottle stands full and all alone in my fridge.

Dang! I had to google that. Maybe I will stop taking it.

I see the heart attack thing also applies to L-carnitine and acetyl-L-carnitine, which many people here take.

 

[Sushi]

2. Getting your vit D to 75-100 will be good, at least it was for me. But past that, you can develop a very dangerous level of blood calcium. I did that, too. Get yourself tested every few months, don't overshoot.

As far as I know it is the Vit D 1,25 that needs to be measured if you are concerned about this risk. Vit D is usually measured as Vit D 25 and the two don't necessarily go in tandem in ME/CFS patients.

Sushi