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b12 doesn't work anymore, need help

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by girlfromeurope, Mar 7, 2014.

  1. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope

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    Hello
    I am on this forum for a couple of months because of a b12 deficiency.
    When I started the protocol I had startup effects but they went away after 2-3 days. Then I felt wonderful , my b12 symptoms improved, my hair and nails got very shiny,..
    Then I got a potassium deficiency and stopped because I didn't know what it was.

    2-3 months after that I started the protocol again.
    The problem is that it suddenly stopped working. My symptoms didn't improve, my hair didn't get shiny again, I didn't got the low potassium. I take 2,5 mg b12 a day with 1mg folate. I also take zinc, magnesium and fish oil.
    I'm trying 2 months now and still nothing happens. I started a b-complex again because I thought maybe that was the cause. (I tried taking a b-complex before but it made me feel jittery and depressed)
    But still nothing changes and the b-complex makes me very depressed. I also have high potassium now for more than a month because I was potassium loading without having low potassium.

    I don't know what is going on and why the b12 doesn't work anymore. I tried increasing folate but it doesn't change anything.
    Or maybe the high potassium stops the b12 from working?
    I am so hopeless and depressed.
    Does anyone have any idea?
  2. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Can you be more specific? When you say you are taking B12, which form is it?
    What B complex are you taking exactly?
    I imagine that you are taking methylfolate, right?
    Also what do you mean by high potassium? Did you check it via blood work?

    cheers
    Star-Anise likes this.
  3. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    @girlfromeurope, the K+ is not keeping the B12 from working. It's needed to balance the effects of B12/folate. Generally B12/folate should be in somewhat balanced ratio. You're taking 2x 5mg B12? 10mg B12? If so you're taking a lot more than your 1mg folate. You can increase the folate SLOWLY, about 100-200mcg every day or 2. Freddd's Protocol calls for also AdenoB12 and carnitine, which for many, like me, needs to be L-Carnitine Fumarate (LCF). Freddd calls this the Deadlock Quartet. I don't know if you're just trying to raise your B12, or if you have some version of ME/CFS. What's in the B complex? If it has folic acid, you shouldn't be using it. Here's a questionnaire that might have some relevance. If you score high enough, it's worth following the simple protocol in the second link for pyroluria.

    http://www.hputest.nl/evraag.htm
    http://www.klinghardtacademy.com/images/stories/powerpoints/hpu 2009.pdf
    Star-Anise likes this.
  4. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope

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    I take nature made b-complex with vitamin c
    Yes I take methylfolate and I take solgar methylb12 (this brand worked very well for me before)
    When I started the protocol again I took a lot of potassium because I knew I was going to be low in potassium ( but that never happened). I got heart palpitations and muscle spasms everytime I took the potassium (I know when I'm high in potassium I experienced that before). thanks for your help
  5. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope

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    No I take 2 mg and a half of methyl b12, not 10 mg.
    I tried taking 2-3 mg of folate but it does't work. The first time I tried the protocol it worked and I did have low potassium symptoms and start-up without taking carnitine or adenob12. So I don't understand why it suddenly doesn't work anymore. I'm just trying to raise my b12.
    But thanks for your help :)
  6. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    @girlfromeurope: maybe try to switch brands. Country Life mB12 5000mcg product #6304 (not any of their other mB12 products) or Enzymatic Therapy 1000mcg seem to get the best reviews from the most people around here lately. Enzymatic Therapy definitely works for me. I'm about to try the Country Life tomorrow.

    FYI, sometimes companies change their formulations or raw materials suppliers. This can affect how well the product works. They never tell anybody when they do this. So one day a great product that has been working well for you suddenly stops working or isn't that great any more. This has happened to me with different supplements in the past, and from what I read it's also happened to people here with various mB12 products. They had to switch and find other brands because what they had been successfully using suddenly stopped working.
  7. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope

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    I still use the same bottle as I did 3 months ago. (when the protocol worked)
    But I will try the enzymatic therapy one in the future.
    Thanks for your help!

    I think I may have symptoms of a b2 deficiency, altough I'm taking a b-complex for one week now.
  8. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    @girlfromeurope

    Did you leave your bottle of Solgar Vitamin B12 methylcobalamin in bright light, like near a window or next to a bedside lamp?

    Methylcobalamin is quickly broken down and destroyed by light. This process is called photodecomposition or photodissociation. See this post for more info. Ideally jars of methylcobalamin should be completely opaque to light; they should really be made from thick black plastic or glass that blocks out all light. This only applies to methylcobalamin, though, because other forms of B12 (such as adenosylcobalamin and hydroxocobalamin) are not destroyed by light.


    Also, are you taking this B12 correctly? As you may know, B12 is not well absorbed in the stomach, and you are supposed to suck the B12 tablet slowly under the tongue (sublingual) for 5 or 10 minutes.

    However, a better approach is to crush the B12 tablet into a fine powder, and apply this power to the upper gum area of you mouth (between your upper teeth and gums). This generally works better than sublingually, because there is less saliva on the upper gum area to wash away the B12.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
    whodathunkit likes this.
  9. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    It sounds more like paraoxical folate deficiency which is VERY common especially with the low dose of folate you are taking, I would try and bump the folate to at least 8mg a day and see how you feel and try at least 5mg of the methyl b12, alongside picking up some adenob12... Another very important thing is to take the b12 on an empty stomach and at least 20 minutes prior to eating any meal.. To get maximul absorbtion you don't want anything else being digested at the same time..

    Getting a couple shots of methyl b12 a month along side the lozenges could help as welll.. To be honest 2.5 mg of methyl b12 for someone with an intrinsic absorbtion factor issue of b12 is still kind of low. Most people with prenecious anemia for example if not getting shots a couple times a month always opt for at least 5mg of methyl b12 a day sublingual, but many still have decifiency even with this amount... It can kind of vary from person to person... You aren't doing anything wrong though it just sounds like some kind of methyl trap, or perhaps you are not getting enough b12 right now and still in a deficiency.. Once again though definitely be sure to raise the folate to a higher dose with the b12, that will help ALOT.

    I think symptoms of low potassium with Fred's protocol are more dramatic with people that have CFS/M.E. if I remember correctly, though he says ANYONE that uses this protocol will need to raise potassium levels regardless. As of now I think your doses were pretty low and moderate so not enough to consider huge intakes of added potassium.
    girlfromeurope likes this.
  10. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Maybe you don't need all of that any longer. Our bodies change through time, you probably need to establish the balance of supplements again.

    I also take Solgar methyl-b12, and a b-complex. Don't feel the need for potassium as I did before. I just try to take some through diet and supplement when I feel low potassium symptoms. The demand for potassium has never been constant for me too.

    Start slow. If you feel you need all the supplements again, add them one by one. When you feel the need for another, then try and add something else. Just take only methyl-b12, b2 and see how it goes? Then add other things step by step?
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2014
  11. yarnee

    yarnee

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    I'm having the same problem im glad someone made a thread on this
    girlfromeurope likes this.
  12. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    The B-Complex contains folic acid and cyano-B12 which both may interfere with the active forms of folate and B12 you're taking (especially the folic acid). You may want to switch to a better product with the active forms of those two components. There are several threads that talk about various options in here.

    About Solgar's B12. I used that too for a while. At the beginning the 1000mcg were even too much for me and gave me lots of anxiety but in a 4-6 weeks the symptom went away and I started seeing improvements.

    Now I don't feel Solgar's B12 is working for me as well as it did before. I've tried other brands that dissolve more slowly and they seem to work better for me. So maybe you had a similar experience where your body is now asking for more B12 and the Solgar product isn't sufficient anymore. You may want to slowly up the dosage or take a different brand which gets absorbed better.

    That's interesting. So you were having symptoms that resemble low potassium when you were taking too much of it...
    Similarly I have been taking active B12 for quite sometime without any of potassium issues, so far.
    I guess it's best to have some potassium at hand but don't get started until it's necessary, if it's necessary
  13. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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  14. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    That's interesting. So you were having symptoms that resemble low potassium when you were taking too much of it...
    Similarly I have been taking active B12 for quite sometime without any of potassium issues, so far.
    I guess it's best to have some potassium at hand but don't get started until it's necessary, if it's necessary[/quote]


    That is something that is important for people to watch out for, there is utterly no real differences between having symptoms of low potassium, or too high of potassium and both are fatal... However having too much potassium is pretty rare without really excessive potassium supplementation as the body will pee it out to balance electrolytes... Unless someone has kidney issues or other similar things.
    PeterPositive likes this.
  15. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope

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    I have adrenal problems, so I can have issues with too much potassium.
    My b-complex doen't contain folic acid.
    http://www.naturemade.com/products/b-complex/b-complex-with-c

    I really feel like the b12 isn't working, but I will try to take more folate because that's the only thing I can think of is going wrong.

    Thanks everybody for your replies!
  16. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    @girlfromeurope: if you're going to up methylfolate you probably should also switch to a different brand of mB12 to ensure you're getting enough. From what I understand not getting enough B12 into cells when upping methylfolate can cause problems. So if Solgar is not effective for you any more, and you continue to use it while increasing mfolate dosage, you might not do so well. Apparently it's only a small amount of available mB12 needed for mfolate to work, but if you're using a B12 brand that that doesn't work properly you might not even get that.

    Please don't assume that because a 3-month old open bottle of mB12 no longer gives you good effects that all mB12 is not going to work for you. :)

    Also think you need a little mB12 each time you take a dose of mfolate, and that spreading even small doses through the day is better than taking all at once.

    Good luck!
    girlfromeurope likes this.
  17. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope

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    Do you really nead carnitine, sam-e , and those other things for b12 to work?
    Or is that just for more healing when you have cfs? ( I don't have cfs)
    I only take methylfolate, b-complex, magnesium , zinc and fish oil
  18. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    Well, as I've been saying, I'm new so don't really understand all about it yet, but my experience was that things improved when I added L-carnitine fumarate (LCF) and adenosylcobalamin (adB12). It's still been a bumpy ride but I got a big boost in energy when I added those two. Playing around with dosage is a good idea...I found that I didn't need a whole capsule of LCF, for example. Half cap did me real well. Same for adB12, except you take that sublingually.

    Look at your b-complex. If it has any folic acid in it, that could be one reason you're not having results. Just a thought. If it has folic acid or folinic acid in it you might want to try switching to see if that helps.

    If you're taking fish oil I would advise to take some vitamin C and other antioxidants a couple times per day. Fish oil is good for the nervous system but can also spin off free radicals quickly in the wrong environment, because it oxidizes so quickly. In the long run free radical damage can offset the benefit of the omega-3's from the fish oil.

    Read the sticky threads at the top of this forum (the "Detox: Methylation..." forum). Especially pay attention to the thread titled "B-12: the hidden story", starting at page 3. There is a lot of good information in all the sticky threads, and they give good advice on what other things you might need or want to take when you're trying Freddd's "Dreadlock Quartet" (mB12, adB12, LCF, and methylfolate) for methylation.

    One thing to keep in mind is that the brand recommendations for the quartet have changed since those threads were started. Current recommendations are:

    LCF: Doctor's Best
    mB12: Country Life 5000mcg #6304, or Enzymatic Therapy 1000mcg
    adB13: Anabol Naturals
    mfolate: Solgar (as metafolin)

    HTH.
    girlfromeurope likes this.
  19. richarduklon

    richarduklon

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    Hi, this looks good. Do you only take this supplement and not add extra B12's? looks like at half an lozenge would give you about 1MG * 20% absorption / 2, so about 100 Mcg of Adenosyl and 100 Mcg Methyl.
  20. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    No I also take 1 and 1/2 of these B12+Folate tablets:
    http://www.seekinghealth.com/active-b12-lozenge.html

    Which add another 750mcg Methyl-B12 + 750mcg Adenosyl-B12 and 1200mcg of folate. ( I am aiming at 2 tablets/day )

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