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B12 deficiency, what does this mean?

Discussion in 'Diagnostic Guidelines and Laboratory Testing' started by Symphony, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. Symphony

    Symphony

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    so, bloods came back, and I have enlarged red blood cells, and not enough B12 doctor said that its very unusual for someone of my age (24) .....

    I have been sent for more blood tests again...

    Gp didn't have much time to explain it all to me, can anyone shed any light on this? is this normal for people with ME? is it bad, is it something else? why could it be happening?

    (definitely not diet related)
  2. Sherlock

    Sherlock bicarb for exercise recovery and taming candida

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    Hi, sounds like macrocytic anemia (large RBCs from low B12 and/or low folate). Do you have shortness of breath? At your age, though, you might not have much of any symptoms.
  3. Symphony

    Symphony

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    no shortness of breath, but lots of pins and needles and numbness and tingling and vision disturbance etc, which I am guessing is somewhat related to that because that's what they were looking for the cause of when I had the fist tests done.
  4. Sherlock

    Sherlock bicarb for exercise recovery and taming candida

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    Yes, those are the classic symptoms of macrocytic anemia.

    Have you looked into the Methylation forum, and/or tried methyl B12 and folate?
  5. Symphony

    Symphony

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    I had a quick look through, but to be honest I don't really understand what anyone was talking about and it was hard for me to understand weather the things in those threads were related to this or not.

    For instance what is methylation, and what do you mean tried methyl B12 and folate?
  6. Sherlock

    Sherlock bicarb for exercise recovery and taming candida

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    Here is a very basic run through: some of us have a genetic mutation which means that we can't methylate so well. To methylate vitamins means to change them chemically in order to make them active. Normally, the body takes in vitamins from food or from pills, the body then methylates them, then the now methylated-vitamins can do their job. If we can't properly methylate them, then the vitamins just sit there.

    In particular, we can't turn the vitamins B12 and folate into the active form. So in your case it might be that you are not making red blood cells in the normal way that everyone else is.

    A possible solution is to take vitamins (B12 and folate) that are already methyated. It's certainly worth a try. They do cost more, btw.
    Symphony likes this.
  7. Symphony

    Symphony

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    ah I see, thank-you very much, the doctor did say that I might be given an injection of B12 after the next set of tests, but he can't give it to me yet as he needs to find out why its so low in the first place,

    This genetic mutation, does it have a specific name?

    I wish I knew why this was happening, but I suppose if its genetic, then its just a 'that's just the way it is' situation :confused:
  8. Sherlock

    Sherlock bicarb for exercise recovery and taming candida

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    In my case, I believe it's the MTHFR 677 one, called an SNP (pronounced 'snip').



    That also leads in my case to having excess histamine, which in itself creates lots of symptoms. So then, the path is to take anti-histamine measures... like quercetin, which is a natural supplement.

    And btw, most regular doctors probably won't believe all this. Then again, some still don't think there is such a thing as CFS anyway.

    Did you know that some here even buy and inject their own B12?
    Hanna and Symphony like this.
  9. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Hi Symphony;

    You are having symptoms that indicate neurological damage is occurring. I hope the doc is testing you for Pernicious Anaemia, an autoimmune caused B12 deficiency.

    Meanwhile, you've already shown low B12 in the serum, and macrocytosis that may indicate an advanced B12 deficiency.

    I believe this is far and away enough proof that the doc should start you with loading doses of B12 injections as soon as possible before more damage results.

    B12 deficiency can begin at any age, and can have a genetic cause.
    Symphony likes this.
  10. IreneF

    IreneF Senior Member

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  11. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Hi,

    I also have B12 deficiency. I am facing a lot of neuro and psych troubles because of it,enough to cease my functioning. What is your MCV and serum B12 level? I am 21.
    I don't really know the cause, but I suppose it is mostly genetic. There has been a lot of focus on the MTHFR,MTRR.... mutations and that could be it. Maybe we can't convert to the active forms of b12 required by the body.


    Anyways,you might want to read the following:

    Phoenix Rising B12 forum, you can post here and get a lot of information:
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?forums/detox-methylation-b12-glutathione-chelation.6/

    More links:

    B12 deficiency: a silent epidemic with serious consequences


    B-12 - The Hidden Story


    Vitamin B12 deficiency is commonly misdiagnosed.
    Symphony likes this.
  12. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Hi Sherlock,
    Do you have any more links to the SNP videos/articles, mostly relating to MTHFR and MTRR( B12 and folate cycles)? It will be of great help to me, to understand the processes on a genetic level.


    Thanks!
  13. Symphony

    Symphony

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    thanks for all the links :)
  14. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Hi Y'all;

    There are many genetic mutations that can result in pernicious anemia and other forms of B12 deficiencies. But testing for which specific ones could be extensive.

    Some of the defects could be in the GIF,CUBN,AMN, and TCN genes.

    http://rc.kfshrc.edu.sa/rcf/E_Library/NTDR/Disorders of cobalamin.pdf

    I haven't had any genetic testing, and the one time I tested for pernicious anemia, it was negative for antibodies to Intrinsic Factor, and Parietal Cells.

    But, I did have every symptom of it, even including jaundicing of my skin and eyes. (sclera) I also had an elevated MCV, MCH, etc.

    Although no one in my family has been diagnosed with PA or B12 def., Most of members on both sides have shown symptoms. ( My mother, 81, has recently tested with low folate. She's taken many supplements for ~ 40 yrs.)

    So, I hope to do genetics testing in the future, but I think it's difficult to decide which to test for, especially when cost is an issue.
    Meanwhile, I'm glad that taking alot of B12 and Folate is working for the symptoms. ( fatigue has been much reduced, neuropathy minimized, no more jaundice, etc.)

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