1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
ME/CFS and the Magic of the Canine Factor
There's been plenty of research indicating that having pets is good for your health. I never really noticed any particular benefits to having cats, though that may have had more to do with my cats. They've been fairly indifferent to my presence and we've shared a live-and-let-live...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

b12 deficiency, dysautonomia and cfs problems with cadmium detox.

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by bluezone, Jan 11, 2010.

  1. bluezone

    bluezone

    Messages:
    8
    Likes:
    0
    I was diagnosed with b12 deficiency of unknown origin and autoimmune thyroiditiis last year and since then my health has rapidly deteriorated; I was given daily b12 shots for a week, and then every two weeks etc... I am still left with various symptoms such as brain fog, inability to sweat, weakness in my legs and fatigue. I am not going to bore you all with my story,as it is rather long and complicated, but I was wondering whether you could help me answer the following questions:

    1. My brain fog seems to dissappear when I take glutathione precursors, only for all the b12 symptoms to re expose their ugly head. I have tried chlorella to get rid of the excess cadmium residing in my body, but the same problem occurs even though chlorella contains b12!!! I think it is something to do with the glycine content. Does anyone have any bright ideas about how to get round this problem? I am planning on doing a couple of low dose dmsa rounds, but I am worried about the consequences. I am not even sure if dmsa will get rid of the cadmium? I have also tried high dose methylcobalmin injections on daily basis to no avail.

    2. Interestingly I had a sinus infection two weeks ago and I was prescribed amoxicillin three times a day for ten days. The strength in my legs seemed to have come back, not as strong as it was before, but a definate improvement. I also felt really weird feeling in my head-I will not go into these now. Does this sound like an infection of the spinal column? I have been tested three times for lymes disease and three times it has been negative. The only thing that shows up is a low reading on the IgM count (which according to the doctors is another infection) whilst if I chronic lymes it would most definately show up on the IgG, which is negative. Could I still have lyme's even though I have been feeling like this for a year with respect to the negative IgG.

    3. On a heavy metals test (blood) I did the only thing that came up was cadmium and a rather mysterious non detectable mercury reading. Could someone please clarify this and why this reading is so abnormal?

    4. Last question i promise...why are the doctors not prescribing me any thyroxine even though I have got autoimmune thyroiditis??



    Thanking you in advance,
     
  2. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,717
    Likes:
    755
    Hi, bluezone.

    I"m sorry to hear about your deteriorated health situation.

    It sounds as though you might have glutathione depletion and a partial methylation cycle block, which involves a deficit in B12 function. These appear to be the biochemical hallmarks of CFS, and it appears that your symptoms match CFS as well.

    The best way to find out is to run the Vitamin Diagnostics methylation pathways panel. This will be available again at about the end of this month, hopefully, since the lab has been moving to a different building. The contact information for this test is pasted below.

    If it turns out that you do have a partial methylation cycle block, together with your physician you might consider the Simplified Treatment Approach (protocol pasted below). This protocol includes active forms of folate together with hydroxy B12 and some cofactors. B12 by itself will not lift a partial methylation cycle block. Using glutathione precursors will not raise glutathione to normal on a permanent basis. If a partial methylation cycle block is present, the detox system will be dysfunctional, and heavy metals will build up in the body.

    You mentioned cadmium toxicity. The main source of cadmium toxicity is cigarette smoke. Have you been a smoker, or been exposed to a lot of second-hand smoke?

    Which lab ran your Lyme Western blot test? Conventional lab tests do not include all the important bands, and miss many cases of Lyme disease. Have you had tick bites? Have you spent time in wooded or brushy areas? Igenex Lab is about the most reliable lab for this test. If you have Lyme disease, it will need to be treated in addition to treating the partial methylation cycle block, if present.

    Mercury stays in the blood for only a few weeks. Unless you have ongoing or recent exposure to mercury, a blood test will not tell you if it's a problem or not.

    I can't speak for your doctors in regard to their decisions about your thyroid situation. Have you had a thyroid panel run that included TSH and free T3? If so, what were the results? I presume that thyroid antibodies were found, which are evidence for autoimmune (Hashimoto's) thyroiditis. In some cases, this can cause hyperthyroidism for a while, and later hypothyroidism. Whether or not you need supplementary thyroid hormones will depend on whether your thyroid hormones are actually showin a hypothyroid condition.

    I hope this is helpful, and I wish you the best. The fact that you have been ill for a relatively short time is in your favor.

    Rich

    Methylation Pathways Panel

    This panel will indicate whether a person has a partial methylation cycle block and/or glutathione depletion. I recommend that this panel be run before deciding whether to consider treatment for lifting the methylation cycle block. I am not associated with the lab that offers this panel.

    The panel costs $300 and requires an order from a physician or a chiropractor. The best way to order the panel is by fax, on your clinician’s letterhead.


    Available from:

    Vitamin Diagnostics, Inc.
    540 Bordentown Avenue
    South Amboy, NJ 08879
    USA
    Phone:+1 (732) 721-1234


    Lab Director: Tapan Audhya, Ph.D.
    (usually at the lab on Tues. and Wed. from 1 to 3 p.m., Eastern time)

    Dr. Audhya is willing to help clinicians with interpretation of the panel by phone.



    April 18, 2009


    SIMPLIFIED TREATMENT APPROACH
    FOR LIFTING THE METHYLATION CYCLE BLOCK
    IN CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME (Revised)

    (Extracted from the full treatment program
    developed by Amy Yasko, Ph.D., N.D.
    which is used primarily in treating autism [1])

    SUPPLEMENTS

    1. FolaPro [2]: tablet (200mcg) daily
    2. Actifolate [3]: tablet daily
    3. General Vitamin Neurological Health Formula [4]: start with tablet and work up dosage as tolerated to 2 tablets daily
    4. Phosphatidyl Serine Complex [5]: 1 softgel capsule daily
    5. Activated B12 Guard [6]: 1 sublingual lozenge daily

    All these supplements can be obtained from http://www.holisticheal.com, or all but the third one can be obtained from other sources.
    The first two supplement tablets are difficult to break into quarters. We recommend that you obtain (from any pharmacy) a good-quality pill splitter to assist with this process. They can, alternatively, be crushed into powders, which are then separated on a flat surface using a knife or single-edged razor blade, and the powders can be mixed together. They can be taken orally with water, with or without food.
    These supplements can make some patients sleepy, so in those cases they take them at bedtime. They can be taken at any time of day, with or without food.
    GO SLOWLY. As the methylation cycle block is lifted, toxins are released and processed by the body, and this can lead to an exacerbation of symptoms. IF THIS HAPPENS, try smaller doses, every other day. SLOWLY work up to the full dosages.
    Although this treatment approach consists only of nonprescription nutritional supplements, a few patients have reported adverse effects while on it. Therefore, it is necessary that patients be supervised by physicians while receiving this treatment.


    [1] Yasko, Amy, and Gordon, Garry, The Puzzle of Autism, Matrix Development Publishing, Payson, AZ, 2006, p. 49.
    [2] FolaPro is a registered trademark of Metagenics, Inc.
    [3] Actifolate is a registered trademark of Metagenics, Inc.
    [4] General Vitamin Neurological Health Formula is formulated and supplied by Holistic Health Consultants LLC.
    [5] Phosphatidyl Serine Complex is a product of Vitamin Discount Center.
    [6] Activated B12 Guard is a registered trademark of Perque LLC.
     
  3. bluezone

    bluezone

    Messages:
    8
    Likes:
    0
    Thanks Rich for getting back to me so quickly. I have done a similar methylation panel by metametrix and they found no deficiencies, as I have been supplementing with alot of the vitamins you mentioned for some time now. My problem is that every time I try and increase my glutathione, my b12 seems to drastically fall. Is there any way I can get rid of the cadmium without increasing my glutathione levels? Would dmsa work? Oh and yes I used to be a heavy smoker.

    With respect to lyme, a private lab in London and the reference lab in Southampton ran a western blot test and some other more complicated one. Both came back negative, apart from a low IgM count; which is not indicative of lyme. I just cant get my head round why when I took antibiotics, the strength in legs came back and then when I stopped I was back to square one. Can other infections cause loss of strength etc...

    You are right-the only thing that showed was high thyroid antibodies, whilst other thyroid functions were in range; so assume no need for thyroxine.

    Thanking you again
     
  4. markmc20001

    markmc20001 Guest

    Messages:
    877
    Likes:
    80

    1. My brain fog seems to dissappear when I take glutathione precursors, only for all the b12 symptoms to re expose their ugly head.


    I have something similar going on I think. THe NAC and glutathione make me feel great for a bit, but then my hair drys out, and my nerves get fried in my legs. Can't wait for the anwser to this one!

    2. Interestingly I had a sinus infection two weeks ago and I was prescribed amoxicillin three times a day for ten days. The strength in my legs seemed to have come back, not as strong as it was before, but a definate improvement.
    Same here. I was on a combined antibitic protocol for a few montsh. with DOXy, AMox, and Flagyl. helps knock back those bugs. Good luck!
     
  5. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,717
    Likes:
    755
    Hi, bluezone.

    ***You're welcome. On your question about DMSA and cadmium, the paper that is abstracted below reports that DMSA is effective in treating cadmium toxicity.

    ***Rich

    Altern Med Rev. 1998 Jun;3(3):199-207.

    Dimercaptosuccinic acid (DMSA), a non-toxic, water-soluble treatment for heavy metal toxicity.

    Miller AL.

    Alternative Medicine Review. P.O. Box 25, Dover, ID 83825, USA. alan@thorne.com

    Heavy metals are, unfortunately, present in the air, water, and food supply. Cases of severe acute lead, mercury, arsenic, and cadmium poisoning are rare; however, when they do occur an effective, non-toxic treatment is essential. In addition, chronic, low-level exposure to lead in the soil and in residues of lead-based paint, to mercury in the atmosphere, in dental amalgams and in seafood, and to cadmium and arsenic in the environment and in cigarette smoke is much more common than acute exposure. Meso-2,3-dimercaptosuccinic acid (DMSA) is a sulfhydryl-containing, water-soluble, non-toxic, orally-administered metal chelator which has been in use as an antidote to heavy metal toxicity since the 1950s. More recent clinical use and research substantiates this compound s efficacy and safety, and establishes it as the premier metal chelation compound, based on oral dosing, urinary excretion, and its safety characteristics compared to other chelating substances.

    PMID: 9630737 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
     
  6. Sunday

    Sunday Senior Member

    Messages:
    732
    Likes:
    31
    bluezone, my understanding from reading Freddd's posts is that, when you take glutathione supplements (or any of the precursors, such as denatured whey or NAC), it messes up your methylation cycle by blocking the active B12s from going where they're supposed to. (Those who are more knowledgeable, feel free to correct this version of events.) In any case, earlier in the thread, Freddd talks about how taking glutathione really messed him up.

    The active B12s are "upstream" from the glutathione, so taking it blocks their pathway. When the methylB!2 and adenosylB12 are in place and given a chance to work (it takes time), the glutathione will naturally be built up agin. You might want to try stopping the glutathione and concentrate on the B12s and cofactors for awhile, but deinitely check with more knowlegeable sources about this. It does sound as if the glutathione is messing up your methylation cycle.
     
  7. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,544
    Likes:
    911
    Salt Lake City
    Hi Bluezone,


    http://forums.aboutmecfs.org/showth...duced-Methylb12-and-Methylfolate-Deficiencies

    You might do some reading on this thread. I found that it took 4800mcg og methylfolate and substantial doses of methylb12 and adb12 to overcome the 3 induced deficiencies by the glutathione precursors. The effects were very rapid and powerful. Then if you come over to http://forums.aboutmecfs.org/showthread.php?188-B-12-The-Hidden-Story&p=34632#post34632 we can discuss the active b12 protocol that is ever so much more effective than occasional inactive b12 injections.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page