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B12 causing numbness?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by arx, Mar 21, 2014.

  1. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Hi,

    I didn't have numbness in my hands and feet before, but after taking B12 and other b-complex vitamins I am starting to experience it a lot. It's very annoying.

    Any insights if this is a normal start-up reaction or indicates lack of co-factors or induced deficiencies (like electrolytes)?

    I have potassium and magnesium deficiency in my mind, but none of them have helped till now.

    Thanks :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
  2. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Did you ever supplement potassium when you started the protocol? Numbness from b vitamins can be a sign of potassium deficiency as a start up demand grows for more then what can be produced in the body. Having excess b complex vitamins can make the need for potassium impossible to quench as well.. For b complex pills try and reduce the amount of vitamins in the pill if possible.. For example I use one called B Right that is a powder in a cap. All I have to do is empty half or more of the powder from each cap and I have a more normal amount. The B Right complex I use also has methy folate instead of folic acid.

    How much potassium are you intaking? any supplemental form? are you also using methyl folate right now?
     
  3. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Yes. I supplement potassium. I failed to mention that I took oral b12 this time, not sublingual. It was surprising to see startup reactions from oral B12.

    I do not take methylfolate. I don't want to go aggressive now, but just maintain some amount of B12 in my body. Apparently going to the oral mb12 + b-complex route was also aggressive!

    Potassium - well, apart from the usual meals (potassium must vary there), I take 2 bananas, a coconut water, and I have a potassium citrate solution which I use. I usually feel the need for it through dry mouth, thirst, and increased urination. But I think there must be more symptoms that can be attributed to potassium deficiency. I feel like magnesium deficiency is one of them. I'm experimenting. :)
     
  4. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    This brings me to another thought:

    Can the need for potassium ever stop with b12? It is quite annoying, and for a person who wants to function it just creates more barriers to get through the day. I thought oral mb12 would be fine, but it wasn't.
     
  5. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    You are not going to get any use out of the b12 unless you combine it with folate, they are dependent on each other for cell growth and absorption.. This goes beyond methylation but to normal physiological processes of human biology.

    Oral as in swallowed b12? The demand for potassium remains the same regardless of the dose of b12 and folate as well.. If you are taking 1,000mcg or 10,000mcg there is no notable difference except that it is quite a good amount at first.

    Methyl b12, and Adeno b12 are the most demanding of potassium, hydrox is second most demanding, and low potassium with cyanob12 is pretty rare unless you were severely deficient in b12 levels to begin with.

    Hydroxy and Cyano are both crap quality and serve no purpose in methylation though, I know others will disagree on the hydroxy and regard MTHFR studies and reports however in my experience and many others that actually apply it beyond theories it appears to just be a down graded quality version of methyl b12.

    Both need to convert to methyl b12 in the body for use regardless, if you really want to start healing and do it right I would suggest getting on methyl b12, methyl folate, and adeno b12 at appropriate doses which you can find on Fred's original thread.

    If you are not using that protocol then disregard this and do whichever other one however be aware that folate and b12 are dependent on each other and you will piss out about 90% of that b12 without adequate folate to match it.. I did the same mistake before lol. Also stay the HELL away from folic acid!! haha

    In regards to potasssium you can just take 3,000 extra a day through supplemental form. Now brand name offers a powder that you can easily reach this with.. Just three times a day with meals and it is not too much potassium over all. It just works better because this version of potassium is immediately available at the cellular level rather then taking in high potassium foods alone, that can work as well however the full effects of potassium from the foods take a bit more time to process.

    You don't need to go super crazy with the potassium just a good ratio of potassium to salt in the diet, some high potassium foods to reach the RDV and a bit of supplemental potassium will do! You never want to over do potassium anyways Hyperkalemia is just as deadly as hypokalemia.


    Yes Magnesium supplementation is also very important! If you do not have adequate magnesium storage your body will not hold onto the potassium you intake either, as it is antagonistic to magnesium and low storages will show a preference to keeping magnesium in stock.


    Oh also stick with sublingual for the b12s that is the best way to absorb the full amount! Also I am pretty sure your b vitamin complex contained folic acid so check that as well! If it has it then toss it.. Nothing will block your methylation pathways worse then folinic and folic acid!

    The need for potassium does not stop though it is less dramatic in time.. It is easy to achieve with some supplemental powder alongside a normal sturdy diet though!
     
  6. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    I could never find any difference between taking folic acid or methylfolate, so I don't pay much attention to folate. Don't know if I'm wrong or right.

    Oral is swallowed, yes. Just like any other tablet, goes through the stomach.

    I've not explored folate properly. Why should I stay away from folic acid? I could never find a difference between l-mthf and folic acid, and my folic acid levels were >20, so I didn't pay attention to it. Perhaps I should?



    Thanks.

    My b-complex does not contain folic acid (I was careful about that) :)
     
  7. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    @arx, you might also consider researching Freddd's old posts to see what he has to say about nerve symptoms with B12, B-12 and folate, and folic acid v. folate. Back research can be most enlightening.

    Briefly, about folic acid: it is synthetic and must be converted by the body to folate before it becomes bioavailable. Some people are unable to convert it because of genetic mutations or maybe even because their bodies aren't up to the conversion process (low ATP, messed up liver, whatever).

    Even folinic acid (like found in green leafy foods), although natural, must be converted by the body. So some people have problems with (or simply don't get the full benefit from) the folinic acid in these foods, and after eating them can exhibit the same kinds of symptoms they do with [synthetic] folic acid. The same goes for folinic acid in supplemental form. So if your B complex had folinic acid not folic acid, it could still be causing you problems if you're one of the ones who can't break it down into its useful constituent (methylfolate).

    Taking methylfolate supplements bypasses the need for any further processing in the body. This is why it's the predominately recommended form around here.

    As far as the need for potassium...it does not keep going up once you correct the nutritional imbalances that are causing it. For example, I'm doing 3mg methylcobalamin subq injection in the morning, along with 20mg sublingual methylcobalamin (at various times spread throughout the day), adenosycobalamin, as well as a large amount of methylfolate, LCF, and other things. But I've actually been able to cut back on potassium supplementation now that I've kind of tweaked and stabilized my B vitamin ratios. I still have little weird symptoms of this and that from time to time so it's a process, and I anticipate having to tweak things for a long while (because homeostasis isn't really static), but for the most part I feel stabilized. Energy is good. Focus is fairly good or at least not any worse than it ever has been. LOL I eat quite a bit of fruit and orange juice, so get potassium from those, and aside from food I'm only taking about 300-500mg supplemental potassium per day.

    As Martial says, it sounds like your nutritional/supplement ratios out of balance. IMO the best way to fix that is to try to do a little more back-reading of Freddd on your own. Even if you don't jump into his protocol with both feet, what he has to say about symptoms with the various nutrients, and how to listen to your symptoms and tweak your own regimen, is extremely useful.

    HTH.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2014
    arx likes this.
  8. AbbyDear

    AbbyDear

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  9. skwag

    skwag Senior Member

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    I second the concern of Abbydear. Maybe too much B6. Consider also too much zinc, especially if you don't have methylation going. Folic acid supplementation may also be worsening your symptoms. I know when I started out, before I really understood Freddd's protocol, I made the mistake of using Folic acid ( intsead of Methylfolate ) and my symptoms got worse.

    @Martial

    If I'm not mistaken B-right still contains Folic Acid, and for that reason is not recommended.
     
  10. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Damn, yeah your right... I have no idea but for some reason it has both folic acid, and methyl folate lol
     
  11. aaadrien

    aaadrien

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    Hi Martial,

    Are you using a B Right complex different than the one from Jarrow Formulas? Because the later has both methyl folate and folic acid in it, this was the one I was taking.
     
  12. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    @aaadrien Yes, Jarrows formula, I just found out from someone else and confirmed it with my bottle. Needless to say that shit is in the trash now lol
     
  13. mgd1972

    mgd1972

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    Just to confirm, is folic acid that is (L-5 MTHF) okay, I.e actually methylfolate? I find the terminology confusing on the different brands. I'm using Thorne research 5-MTHf (1000 mcg) and AOR b complex which has "folic acid" but the MTHF kind so I'm hoping it is the right kind.
     
  14. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    Folic acid is not folate. Folic acid is a synthetic substance that can be processed by the body into folate, but it's not the same thing. The term folic acid is used interchangeably with folate by many people, including health professionals who should know or be taught better, but again, it is not the same thing.

    Folic acid can be processed in your body into the bioavailable methylfolate (like L-5 MTHF), but it is not folate. However, if you are one of the people who are incapable of completing the process that converts folic acid into folate (because of genetic mutation or whatever reason) you get no benefit from it. If you can't process folic acid it can even cause problems by blocking the action of whatever real folate you do get.

    The same with folinic acid. Although it is naturally found in food, it also has to be processed by the body to become bioavailable, and some people are incapable of processing it.

    Methylfolate does NOT need to be processed by the body. It is bioavailable already. This is why it's the preferred form around here.

    If it says folic acid on the product label it's probably best to stay away from it to be safe.
     
  15. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Just checking the Supplement Facts on the bottle, as seen in http://www.iherb.com/Advanced-Ortho...lc=en-US&w=aor b complex&rc=1007&sr=null&ic=1
    I don't see any evidence that it's methylfolate and not just folic acid. They got the B6 and B12 right, but the B9...no evidence.
     

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  16. mgd1972

    mgd1972

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    On the actual label it says

    Folic acid (calcium L-5 MTHF)

    So I assumed it was ok. Confusing though.
     

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