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B12 and Insomnia

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by arx, Jun 11, 2012.

  1. taroki

    taroki Senior Member

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    For my boyfriend, Methyl B12 seems to improve his sleep. So I guess everyone is different.
     
    NilaJones likes this.
  2. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @NilaJones, I've been getting great results using rutin and royal jelly for histamine. Also quercetin, tho I seem to use less of it than the other 2. I really endorse self-testing. I learned my technique just as I was collapsing, so I've had a long time to work with it. It's my best ally.

    @caledonia, thanks for this fav video. I often recommend self-testing, now I can link this.:)
     
  3. caledonia

    caledonia

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    It could still be affecting sleep even if you don't think so.

    Here is a whole page of them: http://www.integrativepsychiatry.net/neuro_tests_by_symptom.html
    It looks like the Neurosleep test might be a good choice. My naturopath had me do this one, but I also had problems with anxiety as well as sleep: http://www.integrativepsychiatry.net/neuroadrenal_profile.html

    I think that's basically it - it should induce and/or maintain sleepiness.

    I think with trials of two other B12s having the same effect, that the Yasko B12 would just be more of the same.

    I don't think you have to "believe" in it to have it work, unless it would keep you from being able to neutralize your mind so as not to influence the results. It's not a religion or mystical; there's at least a partial scientific basis for it, if you know anything about physics.
     
  4. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    So if you have problems with high histamine Benadryl will make you sleepy, but if you don't, it won't? Is that it?

    I've been following the histamine angle of this thread with interest. Suspect I might have somewhat of a problem although no overt reactions. Never had hives, rashes, etc.

    However, I had an iron transfusion a few months ago, before which they gave me IV Benadryl to stave off any reaction from the transfusion. I was rather gobsmacked by how the Benadryl just wiped me out. I went immediately into a trance-like sleep, basically slept the whole five hours of the transfusion (although I did keep waking up due to activity around me and the semi-weird quality of the sleep), and then had a hangover of sorts for a couple of days, during which I was a little muggy, foggy, not quite up to speed.

    Would this reaction to Benadryl indicate a histamine problem? @caledonia, would you care to speculate?
     
  5. Star-Anise

    Star-Anise Senior Member

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    Hi there. @NilaJones Yep this is what I meant:


    When you are able to stablize following the one day raised amount, then do it again. Work to only needing 6 days in between, then 5... and so on. This is how I had to start with methylfolate and methylB12...

    S:)
     
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  6. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    How much rutin and RJ do you use?
    My genetic results contra-indicate quercetin so I'm glad I didn't try it
    I have an immediate reaction to Benadryl - straight off to sleep - I could get quite addicted - I have to limit it to 3 or 4 times a week at most. I alternate it with Nytol (UK)
     
  7. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @maryb, I'm generally using 1 NOW rutin, 450mg, and 1 Paradise rj, 500mg w/ my AM meal. As I've been doing my coffee enema intensive, I find I need these following the enemas, so was using 2/day, tho I didn't test + for additional quercetin. Now, as I've progressed thru this detox, I'm only needing (self-testing + for) them once, following the enemas, indicating less histamine arising from the process. I'm also feeling a lot less funky afterwards. whew!:woot:
     
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  8. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    @ahmo
    thanks for the info.
    I gave up the coffee enemas temporarily - I got horrendous migraines - think I made them too strong - will go back to a teaspoon, (I had gone up to 3 tsp in a pint)
     
  9. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @maryb, I use 3-4 Tb/liter, so that's considerably stronger. When I began them, I used the dark roast I had on hand. 3T gave me sleep problems at night. I decreased to 2 Tb, which was better, but I was still pretty buzzy. So I went to a light roast, which was better. Then I decided to go w/ the speciality coffee from s.a.Wilson, super light roast, and special blend. This has been way better.

    Once I could rule out the caffeine buzz, I discovered that histamines and sulfur/ammonia created in the process was making me feel toxic. So not only did I begin the anti-histamine supps straight after, but I now also do a clear water flush after the 2x coffee enemas. I 'd been reading comments from a GAPS forum member who does them all the time, and started this double coffee routine. And I've been putting a bunch of things into the final, 'clear' water, which might help prevent migraines: GABA, glycine (I've been using this for years, just read that it's a detox agent),
    lysine and ornithine for sulfur/ammonia, mg, K+, arginine, biotin, Vit C and Ca for the histamines, as well as zinc, mang, Se. I'm also adding oregano oil, which has been no problem, not too strong. Big adventure, the only place in my life I've been willing to take risks!:rolleyes:
     
  10. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    @ahmo
    I started on the dr Wilson's stuff so its the best isn't it? I've had a couple of bad months so think I'm probably so toxic its going to be a long slow process, will try another coffee enema tomorrow - its okay to be ill on sunday!!!
    I have to balance everything so I can function at even a low level some days, the migraines totally incapacitate me.
    You take a good balance of stuff - I don't do as well...........
     
  11. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    Vitamin B2, B3, and B6 deficiencies can cause headaches and insomnia.



    There's a thread about B2 that was a big eye opener.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2014
    NilaJones likes this.
  12. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Hello folks! Somehow I stopped recieving notifications for this thread, so I had no idea y'all were still replying. o_O.

    @Star-Anise : Thanks for the clarification :). In a spate of brain fog, I forgot my dose entirely for 3 or 4 days this week, so I have to work up to it a bit again. But I will try your method, after.

    I found a note to myself. It says 'COMT is the reason for my 'speedy' reaction to B12!'.

    Complete with exclamation mark, so it must have felt like quite a revelation. But I guess I was having a bad day when I wrote it, because I didn't write anything more (like why I thought that) and I have no memory of it.

    Do any of you know what this means? And what I can do about it? I have found some threads on addressing COMT, but it is slow going for my wee brain.

    @ahmo: What is the purpose of the coffee enemas?

    @Violetta: Thank you!
     
  13. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @NilaJones Here's what Heartfixer (consolidated Yasko) writes about COMT. (my added highlight color)
    http://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm
    So, yes, you're very susceptible to B12 and folate. Go low and slow.

    I'm doing coffee enemas because I continued to have bloating after 2 years on GAPS. I decided to increase my detoxxing. This has been reinforced for me in Dietrich Klinghardt's vid presentation, emphasis on detox, detox, detox. I've recently added a few essential oils that have ramped up my detox. But you need to be gentle and slow for now. Hope this finds you feeling better.:hug: ahmo

    Natasha Campbell-McBride, GAPS, says
    Klinghardt: Autism, Lyme, Pyroluria
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-z3kRDYcvhA

    Short Version (36pg) Pyroluria/Lyme protocol. From Powerpoint doc used during Klinghardt presentation: Lyme Induced Autism
    http://www.lymeinducedautism.com/images/1_KlinghardtKPU_09_PX.pdf
     
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  14. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Oh, right. Thank you :).

    I expect people like @Sushi find me annoying, because I ask the same questions over and over. But my memory is screwed up, and I have no memory of asking or even wondering before -- until I read the answer and think, 'Oh, right'. If I could remember that I had asked then I could just look in my old posts :(. It's really embarrassing.

    So, is there nothing I can do other than go low and slow?

    How would low and slow even help? It seems like it's really just low and LOW. My body is never going to get better at breaking down dopamine and norepinephrine, is it, unless I can do something to support those processes? Lithium? It's side effects look pretty scary :(.

    Oh, thank you!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2014
  15. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Hi Nila. I doubt that Sushi or anyone is exasperated with you. We all (?) have memory issues. I never know if I've just posted the same answer to the same person yesterday, or if it's, indeed, someone new.:lol:

    My head's not clear enough to answer whether there's anything you can do beyond go low and low. as Star-Anise said,
    Have things changed for you during the past week or so? Are you still taking the clams? Any luck understanding if histamines or glutamate or sulfur are problems? I'll check back tomorrow. :hug:
     
  16. Star-Anise

    Star-Anise Senior Member

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    Hi @NilaJones
    are you still getting insomnia when you try to increase your B12?

    I found that increased liver function really helped me balance everything as well.

    As well, it is possible that you don't need that much B12 at this time. Don't feel pressure to push beyond what your body can use right now. It may take some time.

    I have to agree with @ahmo the detox seemed to be a big part of my picture, and still is. But I'm not sure if that's where you are at to be honest. I'm a firm believer that the body has to have some reserve & strength to detox. If you are still very weak & are mostly bed bound then I'm not sure this is the time for detox. But that is just my opinion.

    The first person that really helped me was Dr. Neville from the Clymer Healing Institute. He is very adrenal focused. And he said first & foremost we need to make sure you are sleeping. Your body cannot heal if you are not sleeping. And he was right. He was the one that introduced me to the Seriphos product to help lower the cortisol at night so I can sleep. People are very reluctant to use it because we tend to have low daytime cortisol. I went off of it awhile ago, but I'm considering trying a small dose again, as I'm getting a second wind around 9pm, & not feeling as rested in the am. He explained that it is a normal/common part of adrenals healing to have higher cortisol at night. I'm also thinking about getting another cortisol test through him, to check in. It's been about 5 years since I had my last one.

    All the best to you, hang in there :) S
     
  17. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Aw, thanks, youse guys :).

    @ahmo :
    Nothing's changed except that I forgot to take the clams for several days, which made my inflammation somewhat worse.

    Histamines are definitely an issue. I am working through testing foods, which will take about another year to complete. The wrong foods make my inflammation much worse, and some of them make me tired or sick. Bad foods so far are gluten, gluten-free rice and oats, cinnamon, and clams left overnight in the fridge.

    Sulfur is not an issue, according to urine strips and symptoms.

    MSG is an issue and I have avoided it for 30 years.

    Thank you so much for your supportive comments about memory :).

    @Star-Anise :

    I don't really feel strong enough for detox, is true. What have you found useful for liver function?

    Re: adrenals, on my tired days I do sometimes get that second wind in the evening, but it does not interfere with sleep. Mostly I don't get that, though. A new thing since I have started getting better is that I am not usually completely exhausted by evening! Just a little tired. And I sleep well if I do not have too much B12 or stress or mineral imbalance. Most nights are good. It's just trying to up the doses that is a problem.

    --

    I have a question for y'all. I am wondering if I should try eating more red meat. I eat about 1/4lb or 100g daily right now. I do have slightly high cholesterol.

    The reason I eat it is that I get chelitis if I don't. But meat does not give me any decrease in inflammation, or increase in energy or mental clarity -- what I think of as signs of B12 absorption. I think the chelitis thing might be from creatine.

    I am not sure how I would tell if it was worth the heart risk.

    Or eggs: I crave them, especially the soft cooked yolks, when I forget to take clams. But symptomatically they are the same as beef. Confusing!
     
  18. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    Some people think that high cholesterol is more a sign of liver issues than eating foods that contain cholesterol.
     
  19. Star-Anise

    Star-Anise Senior Member

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    @NilaJones

    My new friend is limonene. I find it helps with phase 1/2 detox, and is not a sulphur agent, which I'm sensitive too. I find that most liver detoxes are heavy on the sulphur agents, & often contain various different amino acids that are involved in detox. A way to mimic some of the effects of limonene in a more gentler way is to drink fresh lemon water, & increase fresh lemon in diet. As well, I have used citrus bioflavonoids for this purpose as well.

    The other approach that liver detoxes often take is to increase bile production through different agents. My favorite gentle way to do this is through using ginger, & I make a hot ginger tea by steeping fresh ginger.

    I have also experimented with Calcium Glucarate to help liver function in past, but there are concerns about negative impact on thyroid, & my body just seemed to love it at one point, and then was done with it.

    I would. More meat in general was a big part of my recovery. You may not notice results right away, but I think that most of us could benefit from the increased protein & amino acids, and I'm a big Weston Price fan. I think that meat is more accessible protein for us. If digestion is an issue you may want to supplement with HCl. I had to do that for awhile too. I tend to agree with Violeta about the cholesterol issue.

    Yes, I think generally you are likely low in B12, and probably benefit from the protein, sulphur, & amino acids. I would eat more eggs if I were you. I often would eat 5 hard boiled eggs a day earlier on in my recovery.

    Re: the cholesterol issue. I would get a baseline cholesterol & check it regularly. It would be important to monitor it. But I think there has been huge debunking around the saturated fats = high cholesterol theory. I'd check out the westonprice.org site for more info. I found this link that seems to address most of the controversy: http://www.westonaprice.org/cardiovascular-disease/myths-a-truths-about-cholesterol
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2014
  20. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @NilaJones Two thumbs up for Weston A Price, meat, eggs, not worrying about cholesterol:thumbsup::thumbsup:

    I went from grain-based + a bit of fish diet to GAPS. It was a terrifying leap, but there was no choice. My body loved and continues to love it. Most recent 'research' suggests we've been misled for decades re saturated fat, red meat, and cholesterol. Natasha Campbell-McBride (GAPS, neurologist) says our body needs cholesterol for healing. When it's elevated, it's due to need, not pathology. My main food is meat broth w/ added rendered fat (tallow). I'm about to prep fat today. I eat about a palm-sized amt. of meat per meal. When I'm doing coffee enemas, I eat meat once/day, on days off, twice/day.

    I just came across the following in a thread, re raising B12/folate. (my highlighting added) It reminds me that I was working on other supports for my system for some months before beginning to increase these.
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...gaba-to-reverse-its-effect.29083/#post-445250

    I've had great results using herb Chanca Piedra for liver/gb support. Also adrenal glandular. I used a number of other things for adrenals before this, but glandular adrenal seems to be the most efficient, just supplying extra adrenal, w/o needing any sort of complex processing. cheers:balloons:

    http://www.iherb.com/Advanced-Orthomolecular-Research-AOR-Classic-Series-Chanca-Piedra-90-Veggie-Caps/52557#p=1&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=AOR chanca piedra&rc=9&sr=null&ic=1
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2014
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