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B12 and Insomnia

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by arx, Jun 11, 2012.

  1. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Freddd,

    Thanks for the reply.

    I have decided to hold off on the adb12 for a week. Will just take the mb12 and move up/down as required.That will help to find out the cause of insomnia. I will keep TMG in mind.

    I would like to state again that I experienced the nerve sensations with the NOW mb12 sublingual and not with the Jarrow sublingual. If this neurological effect is what is needed, doesn't this mean that I respond better to NOW than Jarrow?

    I totally understand the sleep problem. I also experience varied energy levels(ranging from happy and focussed to confused to completely exhausted within minutes of each other!)throughout the day, and it's like I cannot commit to anything in the very near future, because.It's like there's no rhythm in life at all and it feels like madness many times.It feels like decades since I felt calm and relaxed. Any suggestions on how to feel at ease? ( It seems to me that the internal mechanism that provides relaxation and such things is flawed or inaccessible and hence, there is no way out!)

    Thanks.
     
  2. TPOBPAH

    TPOBPAH

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    Brandon, MB Canada
    Thanks to the link to this very informative thread (thanks Freddd). How did you make out with your experimenting? Are you sleeping better now? What would you recommend I do today to get on the road to good sleep? Should I be adding adb12, or should I get some folate? If so how much should I start taking? It's hard to think when you're tired so I need clear and concise directions for where to start.

    Thankyouthankyouthankyou
     
  3. Michael

    Michael

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    Hi, sorry you have insomnia !

    Methyl B12 has NOT caused me this problem.. I have actually gone to sleep w one dissolving in my mouth.
     
  4. Stillgoing

    Stillgoing

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    Hi,

    It seems that this is a very complicated, personal process.

    I have been taking jarrows methylb12 2x1000 in morning and 2x1000 afternoon. and methylfolate 400 in the middle for 3 days. This has definitely made my sleep worse for now. All about adjustment I guess.

    For me I will take the methylb12 3x1000 in the morning to see if that helps...
     
  5. cph13

    cph13 Senior Member

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    I did jarrows 5,000 to start last August. I had no reaction BUT INSOMNIA. Now I use Enzymatic Therapy mb12 . I felt europhia, brain function increase "happy, happy, joy, joy" @2,000 for 4 weeks. I than just maintained a level of normalcy. My sleep was better, it seemed more "qualtiy" sleep. I am up to 4,000mcg. I began to experience less sleep but I am NOT at all draggy, sluggish. So it is the quality of sleep, I feel. I get less but feel better, almost, dare I use the word "rested". Still haven't gotten that "lovin feelin" back though and that is with adding more folate, aB12, LCF, TMG STEP BY STEP. This is such trial and error it's very annoying... OK so I lack patience....I have no idea how Freddd deals with this yo-yoing. Happy Healing....Hugs
     
  6. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Cph,

    The longer I went the fewer symtpoms there are that change. At 1 year I had perhaps 50% of symptoms reduced perhaps 50%. In two years, after a year+ on AdoCbl about 75% of symptoms reduced about 75%. After adding some levels of methylfolate and LCF and going out to 5 years, 80% of symptoms were gone and the rest were reducing except for those that were caused by the car wreck, and quite a few of those were reduced. So I have only a handful of leading edge folate insufficiency symptoms left to yoyo. It doesn't have to be "trial and error". The items to try virtually always have an effect. Then it is systematic titration to finds the most effective relationships. When one has a model in mind of how adjustments to nutrients affects symptoms that works, and doesn't try to make it happen faster or slower than it can happen, the yo-yoing settles down

    Your description of sleep is right on. In the early years I was sleeping 10 hours a night and unrested. After the pain and stuff got so bad I was sleeping 4-5 hour of poor sleep a night. Now I sleep 7-8 hours and am well rested. Restorative sleep returned over about 18 months for me. I had to have the AdoCbl as well as the MeCbl.
     
  7. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    To be clear for everybody, Jarrow ceased to be a preferred brand of MeCbl about a year ago. Enzymatic Therapy is the only one for now. I've been sleeping well for 8 years now except for a few months last year with the Jarrow before I discontinued.
     
    Star-Anise likes this.
  8. Stillgoing

    Stillgoing

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    I've just ordered Enzymatic Therapy. Thanks to Freddd and this forum.

    I will stick with Jarrows until I get them. I'm pretty new to all this.

    Raise you glass to a good nights sleep for all
     
  9. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Stillgoing,

    After 45 years of poor sleep it was GREAT being able to sleep well again and be rested.
     
  10. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    I logged in to see what others are doing for insomnia, and found this thread. I'm surprised to see that, apparently, insomnia is not a huge deal for everyone doing methylation? And here I thought it was.

    In that case, can y'all help me untangle why it is such a big deal for me, personally?

    I take my B12 when I first get up in the morning. I use food forms, and tiny amounts, because I found that even 1mcg from a pill was too much on the insomnia front. But now that I have got my minerals straightened out, the insomnia still keeps me from increasing my B12 dose.

    I am not taking any sleep meds for the past year or so, after a lengthy project of weaning myself off them. My sleep was pretty great before starting methylation, and continues to be if I keep the dose tiny. I would like to increase my B12, but am hesitant about doing sleep meds again.

    Any ideas?
     
  11. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Hi Nila. My sleep has been improving as methylation improves. My episodic insomnia became chronic and terrible during my decade w/ ME. I used an array of herbs, melatonin did nothing, and low dose Klonopin helped. But, as w/ all pharmaceuticals, I eventually couldn't tolerate Klonopin. Then I started taking pituitary glandular. This has been brilliant. (I also take hypothalamus, thymus, and adrenal glandulars.)I'd been very worried re taking folate in PM, but it's never been a problem, even as my dosage has increased. Likewise, when I'm having symptoms from increasing folate, I've been able to take a B12 at bedtime, and it hasn't kept me awake. Best to you, ahmo
     
  12. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Wow, taking methylation supps at bedtime -- I cannot imagine! If I take my tiny micro dose an hour late in the morning, I feel it that night.

    Thanks for the good wishes :).
     
  13. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    The comments above about B12 interfering with melatonin production got me wondering about the melatonin synthesis pathway and cofactors.

    According to this, I maybe should try same-e, 5-htp, B1, or B3, or B5. I am already taking all the minerals, and am nearly certain I have too little copper, not too much. Or I could try adding back my tiny amounts of folate.

    What do y'all think? Why might I get so much insomnia from so little B12?
     
  14. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    So I looked up the supps in my above post, and they are all contraindicated.

    I'm baffled by the lack of response here. I was hoping to hear from 10 or 15 people on what works for them on methylation-specific insomnia. But, crickets.

    Insomnia is described as a very common side effect of B12 on the sites that come up with a google search -- but the solution they suggest, for healthy people, is to just take less or none. Is it actually a rare side effect for folks here? Any ideas why that might be (and how I can get myself to be more like y'all ;))?

    --

    The silence makes me feel like I have somehow violated a forum custom in my posts, but I can't figure out what I have done wrong. I googlesitesearched for old threads, read them all, and posted in the most likely one, rather than starting my own. That's the procedure here, right? In other forums I hang out on it is frowned upon, but IIRC it is the starting of new threads on old topics that is uncool here?

    Should I be tagging in folks who have been helpful in the past? To me that seems pushy and intrusive, but is it the preferred method here? Like @Freddd, @caledonia , @Sushi, @Star-Anise ? I hope I am not annoying y'all :(

    Brain fog and diverse forum cultures don't mix well, sometimes :(. I can't keep straight what is considered most polite where.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
    Star-Anise likes this.
  15. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    You didn't violate any forum custom or protocol. It is probably that members don't feel that they can add anything to this thread because they don't have the same issues or perhaps they feel that others have said what they might want to say.

    Most people only read a few threads and choose the ones they want to read according to whether it is something applicable to their situation or whether they feel that they can add something worthwhile to the conversation.

    I personally haven't read this thread at all because I am able to inject B12 at night without having a problem. I only read a fraction of the threads that appear each day--it is impossible to keep up with what is going on with each topic.

    If you want input from specific people, it is great to tag them, but otherwise they may not read the thread at all. I sometimes post a thread and get no replies because the thread didn't catch people's interest. That is true for all of us.

    So, to reiterate, you have not done anything wrong! :hug:

    Sushi
     
    Star-Anise likes this.
  16. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Thank you, Sushi :).

    And I sure know what you mean about not being able to keep up with even a fraction of threads, here! (I think it's part of why I don't feel properly enculturated into the group...)

    I cannot imagine being able to inject B12 at bedtime. For me, 1 or 2 mcg feels like a cup of coffee. Do you have any idea why that might be? I am wondering if it means I am deficient in something else?
     
  17. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    I am not the person to ask about all this, but I think some of us have commented before that it looked like your nutrients might be out of balance. It is really hard to say without having levels measured, so my comments and others' are just from what you have posted that you are taking...and not taking!

    When we get tested, most of us are very deficient in some nutrients and are too high in others. B12 metabolism is complicated -- both genetically and with the other nutrients involved. For me, B12 is relaxing, but I know that is not true for everyone.

    Sushi
     
  18. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    I thought I had them balanced now? And would hair testing be helpful, when the levels of what I am taking have changed so much over the past 6 months?
     
  19. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    @Sushi, I'm currently taking:

    2mcg B12 as clams (plus 5mcg in beef, but I don't think I absorb that)
    iron 18mg (I have IDA)
    calcium (1600-2000mg, as needed to control cramping)
    magnesium (600mg oral + topical as tolerated, symptoms if I take too much)
    selenium 100mcg
    vit K 50mcg
    vit D 15,000iu, plus about the same from uv light. ( I am deficient.)
    vit C 0-3,000mg
    vit A, gamma-heavy blend, 400mg
    copper 0.66mg (I would like to take more -- any tips on avoiding vomiting?)
    zinc 11mg
    sunflower lecithin 3,800mg
    fish oil and evening primrose oil.

    I recognise that calcium and magnesium are out of balance. The doses are working to counteract the previous imbalance in the opposite direction and are dictated by current symptoms. Is there another way to go about that?

    Things I have ready to add in after testing for tolerance:

    trace minerals (Thorne, citramins)
    Thorne multivitamin/mineral
    D-ribose
    Quercitin

    I am currently working with GABA for tolerance/usefulness
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  20. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    @NilaJones

    My personal opinion is that the more sophisticated blood tests are more helpful than hair analysis. It is very hard to decide what nutrients to take without knowing your levels. Sometimes copper is a no no--sometimes it is needed--likewise with so many things.

    If we don't know your levels the best we can do is follow the recommendations of whatever type of doctor we personally respect.

    Best wishes,
    Sushi
     

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