Choline on the Brain? A Guide to Choline in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
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B12 and changes

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Sundancer, Feb 15, 2018.

  1. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member


    I think I'll create a thread on how it goes. I'll put my questions here too ( hope for feedback from more exprienced members, there is an awful lot of information out here, a bit overwhelming really)I've to jot it down anyway and this place seems to be the place for it.

    I started end november with half a mg metcob and half a mg adcob as a spray, result was that half an hour later a curtain opened up in my head, huray I thought, I'm on the right track.

    Then I bought and read Myhills book, she advises 5mg metcob a day ( or half a mg metcob as injection) so I started to build up the dose. I had old problems ( especially worsened sleep and pain in the joints) coming back. But the head kept clearing up mightily) so I went on. New problem was ( and is) pain in the backside of my legs, starting back of the knees and going out both up but especially downwards)Then I PEMcrashed due to cognitive overload ( or maybe from too much metcob in too short a time). I reduced the amount of metcob from 3 to 2mg. And recuperated, sleep became better, still not enough but restorative, wow!
    Then started reading Fredds take on things and added adcob. ( I had already bought that, It felt so logical to mee somehow, to take both sorts)

    also bought Potassium and needed it, Thanks @Freddd

    Now it's half February. I did not up the dose yet, sleep is being much better, still wake up in the middle of the night. But most nights I sleep about 7 hours ( with an hour break in the middle). And I wake up refreshed, this feels amazing, I haven't slept that long and well in years now. And I fall asleep much faster, i was used to laying still at least an hour, now many nights I just fall asleep in less then half an hour, really amazing!

    Further I seem to have a little more energy, after months of being totally housebound, I've been out for a small walk ( few minutes) twice this week, feels good.
    Muscletension that I had in check with some supplements is now so low that I sometimes forget my sups.
    I've reduced the amount of 5HTP that I use before going to bed

    Now I'm slowly adding some supplements, next to the codliveroil and linseedil I already took, I now take a fishoilcap and hempoil. I want to add primrose oil too.

    I stopped my Bcomplex ( reason later) and am slowly creating my own combination of B's

    I added K again, because I stopped drinking goatsmilk (so adding K again is dangerfree.)
    ( I've tightened up my dietary regime)

    Now I need to add calcium , I tried that earlier but i did not do well on it, so I'll have to be careful feeling what it does to my body.

    and the zinc, Two years ago I had a total and very bad crash on it. But... by now things should have changed, so I will try it, starting with 2mg.

    further boron, manganese, molybdenium and chrome.

    when I've added all these I'll will start to take more B12

    Then GP did some bloodwork on me.

    Thyroid is going too fast, he's now testing on TSI ( happy he's testing but I am scared a bit, I hope it's something else)

    B1 and B6 were waaay too high.
    so I stopped Bcomplex,
    B1- need for potassium instantly diminished to zero
    B6- it was the easy to take form P5P, why does my body not use the stuff? is that part of the methylation too?

    last time he did bloodwork folic acid too was too high, now I suppose that with taking B12, this will balance out soon and then I'll take folate again.

    I did use B11 as L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolate from L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolic Acid, Glucosamine Salt

    and have now bought Folate (from Quatrefolic, (6S)- 5- Methyltetrahydrofolic acid, glucosamine salt]

    so I'll ask GP if he will regularly test blood for pholic acid/B1/B6 anymore?? regarding the methylation?

    and now the surprising thing, when glucose is tested, I always had low scores, 4.3 or 4.2.
    Now it was 7.9 which is a little too high and absolutely baffles me.

    what the heck is happening in my body and what can/will using B12 change in all these things??

    I feel decidedly better with the B12, but bloodwork shows things that I'm not happy with.

    why the heck has nobody ever told me I should take B12, now that the brainfog is lessened, I see that it is the first thing my former GP should have advised 5 years ago... that feels real bad, needless suffering and maybe needless unfixable damage, stupid doctors!!
    AnnaDove and echobravo like this.
  2. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

    so, some weeks later, I had a lot of emotional/ cognitive and physical overload due to circumstances. but weathered it much better then I expected. I can overexert a little more before PEM comes crashing, and the PEM is shorter and less harsh in duration. So that's good news.

    @Freddd answered some questions for me here

    I now use 2 mg adcob and 2 mg metcob. I tried to up the dose but crashed on it. Now decided that ill go up with doses of half a mg, but have to buy another bottle for that.

    I stopped methylfolate and plan to start it up again soon, I'll start with 100mg and see how it goes, then slowly upping to 400mg. ( well, that's the plan)

    I added some fatty acids and am now on
    morning: a spoon of codliveroil, spoon of hemp-oil, a soft-gel of primrose oil and some vitamin E
    ( i bought a higher dosed brand, that was too high, I got problems, muscle-tension coming back. So now I just do 2 drops in my hemp-oil. So it's a cheap supplement , good for my meager reserves)

    evening: a spoon of linseedoil + a softgel of primroseoil

    I tried fish-oil soft-gels, but the gut protested, and histamine seemed to flare up. So stopped the fish-oil.

    Vitamins I added K and have been fiddling around with the B's. I stopped taking my Bcomplex and now take them all apart. Lowering the B1 meant that the need for potassium vanished. ( B1 levels were too high)
    B6 I will not take until bloodlevels have normalized ( B6 levels were much too high)
    Folate I'll start again soon. ( I thought levels were too high, but assistant of doctor just told me they're oke.)

    Choline has to be added, It was in my former Bcomplex and I read good things about it here.

    Minerals is my crux, I have been using vitamins and fatty acids for years but never all those minerals.

    Magnesium I always took, as citrate and bisglycinate. Now added a form with taurate and malate. Read somewhere that it's a good idea to use several sorts of it. (I know a very good brand, with a little zinc and B6 in it, so have to wait until i can manage that)

    selenium, I always ate 3 or 4 of those nice big brazil nuts...but they are not to be had / too expensive so started with a supplement ( 200mg) I got very ill, it felt like a heartatttack... so started again at 25mg , now on 50 mg. Maybe this was overmethylating? should I have taken Niacin??

    all the other minerals have still to be added, they're in the cupboard.

    the most problematic is the zinc, so maybe I ought to start with that....low dose...

    further I have been fiddling with probiotics, a bottle of bifido infantis was very good, but two days of biokult lead to bad sleep (sickness in the night) so I'll stop that again. i suppose it is the acidophylus that's in it. A shame really because I have another box of stuff that includes the acidophylus.
    Now thinking about lactobacillus reuteri, mutaflor or another brand whose name I've forgotten...
    (I do have a bottle of prescript assist, and some people are very happy with it. But holding a cap in my hand I intuited it not oke, so it's back in the box, maybe later)

    I started to take bitters before the meals, + I bought a bottle of digestive enzymes, I have not started it yet. But I will soon for it should help.


    But think it's best now to first try those minerals and start up folate again.
    I bought a bottle of no flush niacin and made caps of 50 mg of it, to be ready when things get out of hand.

    I've seen these vids: ( with much thanks for @caledonia )

    with these basics I was able to understand ( more or less) this one, I begin to get the gist of it.

    further I'm doing reasonably well. I sleep much better, restorative sleep, some 7 hours per night ( waking up every night around 5, feeling sweaty and heart-rate too high). Have a little more energy, cognitive I've made a huge step forward but still not were I used to be.

    the main setback are jointpains, sometimes very severe, but I trust they will leave me sometime, and the heartthing is sort of worrying to be honest. Plus, a very bad constipation, I had a thread on that
    It is oke now, going once or twice a day, feels better.

    I lowered a bit on the sups I take before bed and instead of twice a gram of glycine in the day I'm back on 1, that feels like good news.

    My nails who were very ribbed are much less ribbed now. And on the indexfingers the ribbing is almost gone, on my right index-finger I even think that I see the beginning of a halfmoon emerging, but too soon to know for sure, time will tell.

    the problems with thyroid are not TSI , no antibodies were found, that's nice. But what then?

    + I think I have heart-problems, I should make an appointment with the cardio, ask GP to come here again. But overwhelmed with taking care of all the papers of the bank, the need for a new drain for my toilet and other things. I need balance first.... but life does not wait for me.

    also the flu is still flying around here, which makes me reluctant to go out to where peole can infect me.
  3. caledonia


    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    Hi Sundancer, I'm glad you liked the videos.

    The evening primrose oil contains GLA, which you need a little bit of to make eicosanoids (aka prostaglandins), the body's natural painkillers. There is a balance between good and bad eicosanoids. The good ones help with pain, while the bad ones increase pain.

    The amount of GLA in a primrose oil capsule is too much. You might feel better at first, but over time, you will get out of balance and start making too many bad eicosanoids and start feeling worse.

    It's better to eat some steel cut oats to get a mg or two of GLA.

    The omega 3's in fish oil help to make good eicosanoids. Any fish oil you take should be pharmaceutical grade or at least molecular distilled, to avoid getting mercury and PCBs (unfortunately our fish supply is polluted with these chemicals).

    If your racing heart symptoms are only during sleep, it could actually be sleep apnea. I've finally been diagnosed with this after years of symptoms. Another possibility is a spike in cortisol from the adrenals. A sleep study could help sort it out (they can diagnose sleep apnea, but probably won't have any idea about adrenals.)
    Sundancer likes this.
  4. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

    Hi @caledonia , thanks for responding

    My stomach firmly rejects oats ( literally....) so that's not a possibility.
    2mg a day? that's a real tiny amount... I've looked at the bottle and it says 45 mg GLA per gel. So that bottle is gonna last me a lifetime.
    I think I will make my own mixture of linseedoil with primroseoil and vit E. Take a piece of paper, work out how much linseedoil is needed for one GLA-gel and then add the vit E. That is the easiest way to take these sups.
    btw, I do have more pain lately...did not understand why, so this might be the reason.

    yes, I had gathered that, so bought and tried fishoil. But got pain in the gut from them + itchiness ( probably being histamine-reaction which I get quickly) I do take codliveroil though, and gut does not seem to have a problem with that, I can take a little more of it without overdoing the A and D part of it.

    good you found out that you've sleepapnea, but what can you do once you have found out?
    A friend of mine has just been diagnosed with sleep apnea.

    I don't think the heart-frequency going up in the night is sleep apnea. because, i wake up and then it's normal. Then I get sort of sweaty and after that the heart-frequency goes up. And when that happens I have been awake for at least half an hour. So is different.

    AND...since I take B12 I sleep much better, and deep, and restorative... oh my, after all those years :) restorative sleep, I had forgotten how good that feels. it's not yet every night but there is a nice trend to be seen
  5. caledonia


    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    There are several solutions, but the usual thing is to get a CPAP mask. Other solutions, depending on the cause or how severe it is, are losing weight, or an oral appliance.

    I have a CPAP mask. Many people have trouble getting used to them, and about 50% of people never do, and give up trying. Some of the newer designs are a lot better than the older ones in that they allow side sleeping. I'm doing ok with the Phillips Respironics Dreamwear mask.
    Sundancer likes this.

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