B1 induced deficiency

[picante]

Thanks, Izzy! I've just ordered potassium chloride for the first time. It may be just what I need (hope hope):

Potassium gluconate (one of the most available supplement forms) goes into solution easily to give potassium ions (which is the electrolyte), and the gluconate part is metabolized in the liver to create bicarbonates. Bicarbonates are also electrolytes. So this is similar to supplementing potassium bicarbonate.

Potassium bicarbonate is alkalizing and it helps to prevent calcium loss that can be caused by a functional potassium deficiency…. which are both desirable for most people – particularly given modern diets. Potassium bicarbonate is also the form most similar to what you get from eating vegetables. However potassium bicarbonate will tend to lower blood pressure.

My sense is that salt cravings are a way to help raise blood pressure – it’s actually the chloride in salt that tastes salty and raises blood pressure. My blood pressure was definitely getting lower after cutting back hugely on salt and supplementing with potassium bicarbonate over the course of a few days. Note that one teaspoon of potassium bicarbonate contains roughly 2000 mg of potassium.

If you have low blood pressure, it’s preferable to supplement primarily with potassium chloride – and use potassium bicarbonate (or potassium gluconate) to help balance pH (if urine pH becomes acidic). Too much bicarb will be too alkalizing and will lower blood pressure so it needs to be balanced with the chloride – which does the opposite.
http://howirecovered.com/understanding-potassium/

I switched to potassium chloride yesterday and my neuropathy is 100% gone, no mouldy paint smell.

@telochian, are you still taking potassium chloride? How is it going?

 

[Gondwanaland]

Thanks, Izzy! I've just ordered potassium chloride for the first time. It may be just what I need (hope hope):

It will probably work for you since it didn't work for me

Once I tried to salt my food with potassium chloride and it felt weird (electricity behind the eyes ). Oral Magnesium chloride on its turn, which is a very popular way of taking it around here, gave me horrible muscle stings 30 mg Potassium bicarbonate almost made me pass out from low BP

This past week during a gout attack I was able to remedy it with lemon juice (high in potassium and in citrate) and B5. I am not eating bananas due to lectins, avocado due to histamine, coconut water due to arginine

 

[Mary]

@Gondwanaland - I have been eating to avoid insulin resistance for over 10 years. I started the potassium gluconate about 5 years ago, and it did not raise my blood sugar, FWIW. Again, I think my main problem is lack of exercise, which I can do nothing about. I am wondering if B1 will help lower my blood sugar, the link between low B1 and blood sugar is well-established.

I have a brother who eats a lot of sugar and we've all been begging him for years to cut back - but I know he wouldn't read that paper you linked above. He values his brain a lot, so I sent him info on dementia and sugar, thinking that would shock him out of his denial or whatever it is, but that didn't do it either.

 

[picante]

It will probably work for you since it didn't work for me

Good to hear that it didn't work for you, LOL. You confirmed my suspicion. I bet it acidified your system, and would have given you gout after not very long.

Lemon juice is great stuff! I'm addicted to fresh lime. Just don't use the bottled stuff -- it has sulfites!

 

[picante]

He values his brain a lot, so I sent him info on dementia and sugar, thinking that would shock him out of his denial or whatever it is, but that didn't do it either.

Too bad. My dad has Alzheimer's, and he was a carb junkie until he went to assisted living. He was living at home, with no short-term memory, not even enough to get the groceries he needed. I think he had Lorna Doone shortbread and Grape Nuts in the cupboard.

 

[Mary]

Too bad. My dad has Alzheimer's, and he was a carb junkie until he went to assisted living. He was living at home, with no short-term memory, not even enough to get the groceries he needed. I think he had Lorna Doone shortbread and Grape Nuts in the cupboard.

I'm really sorry to hear that about your dad. With all the hoopla about having to find a cure for Alzheimer's, the media never mentions the sugar/dementia/Alzheimer's connection. Alzheimer's has been called diabetes of the brain.

 

[picante]

coconut water due to arginine

I'm really sorry to hear that about your dad. With all the hoopla about having to find a cure for Alzheimer's, the media never mentions the sugar/dementia/Alzheimer's connection. Alzheimer's has been called diabetes of the brain.

The other thing they usually forget to mention is that your brain needs good fats in order to repair itself. I have two dear friends who went on the low-fat diet recommended after his heart surgery. Their daughter is a nurse. They both followed that diet and they both died of Alzheimer's 10 years later, despite eating lots of veggie-type carbs (no HFCS for them).

 

[Gondwanaland]

Just don't use the bottled stuff -- it has sulfites!

Only freshly squeezed for me!

The other thing they usually forget to mention is that your brain needs good fats in order to repair itself.

I have read testimonials about coconut oil stopping the progression of Alzheimer's a.k.a. Type 3 Diabetes.

 

[Crux]

Once I tried to salt my food with potassium chloride and it felt weird (electricity behind the eyes ).

My dear, that reads like optic neuritis, a symptom that MS people have. Sorry you had it, glad you discovered why.

 

[Gondwanaland]

My dear, that reads like optic neuritis, a symptom that MS people have. Sorry you had it, glad you discovered why.

There is a number of supplements that give me that horrific sensation - most potassium forms, some magnesium forms and any form of vitamin C incl from some friuts (acerola for instance)

 

[Crux]

There is a number of supplements that give me that horrific sensation - most potassium forms, some magnesium forms and any form of vitamin C incl from some friuts (acerola for instance)

That's how I suspected acidosis...by taking a bunch of HCl one day. I broke out with shingles lesions all over.

I wish I could fix it with B1, but it's been a years long slog of finding the 'acidic agent'.

 

[Gondwanaland]

That's how I suspected acidosis...by taking a bunch of HCl one day. I broke out with shingles lesions all over.

I wish I could fix it with B1, but it's been a years long slog of finding the 'acidic agent'.

I can only control a virus outbrake via a high lysine diet. Lysine supps don't work because the commercial form is lysine-HCl
http://www.sandiegohomeopathy.com/downloads/Lysine_Arginine_Foods.pdf
http://tendler5.wix.com/highlysinediet
http://www.nutritional-supplements-health-guide.com/lysine.html
http://www.traditionaloven.com/tutorials/l-lysine_amino_acid.html
http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-011083000000089000000-1.html?

 

[Crux]

I can only control a virus outbrake via a high lysine diet. Lysine supps don't work because the commercial form is lysine-HCl

I've tried lysine, but no, OLE, no, nothing worked until I stopped acidic things,though other agents have caused outbreaks too.

I should specify that the outbreak was just on my trunk, but both sides. It was so gross, my husband photographed it.

I've not tried these B1 hybrids, though, now it's tempting.

 

[Gretel]

@Mary , my hypothesis about how potassium affects blood sugar is as follows

taking too much Mfolate will convert to inactive folate causing insulin resistance (AND/OR SEVERELY DEPLETE B1 DISTURBING INSULIN ABSORPTION). Potassium quickly reverts insulin resistance and can cause hypoglycemia / "pre-acidosis" in some people (I had that). Magnesium and sodium bicarbonate baths or foot baths alleviate acidosis symptoms (breathlessness, agitation, low body temperature)

I would assume that potassium chloride would be worse in case of acidosis than gluconate (I don't know if or how gluconate relates with blood sugar) but apparantly it hasn't been the case for @telochian

Additionally too much potassium can accelerate B1 metabolism using up available B1 which disrupts insulin absorption - first there will be increased insulin sensitivity, then decreased when the person runs out of available B1.

There is a discussion about the interactions of folate and thiamine linked in my sig

Any kind of potassium supps, Mag Glycinate, Taurine cause me hypoglycemia. I think B-Alanine too, but haven't tried it long enough yet.

Hi @Gondwanaland

I just read your post from December regarding acidosis. I'm wondering if I am experiencing that. I had to take potassium supplements via mouth instead of footbath while I was traveling. I had increased my potassium due to low symptoms but I also started about 25 mg of thiamine. I had no problem with pretty high doses of potassium (over 1K at a time) a few times a day. However, when traveling, I required oral potassium and I also did not take my thiamine. I also have a history of some hypoglycemia, but usually just fades out with some caution and lifestyle modification.

When I got home from my trip I woke up at 2 AM with breathlessness and feeling very cold. The past three days I've continued to feel this more often than not and especially waking up in the middle of the night with these symptoms. Have also had increased light sensitivity.

I saw that you mentioned magnesium (epson salt OK?) and sodium bicarbonate foot baths. If I do indeed have acidosis or pre-acidosis, I'm wondering how long it takes to reverse this and how much thiamine might be needed as well as doses for foot baths with magnesium and sodium bicarbonate. Or at least what worked for you LOL! I think I've had this issue off and on while attempting methylation protocol without realizing it. It's just never lasted this long. Perhaps because I am now taking folate and high doses of potassium when I wasn't before and itsounds like, at least without thiamine, this could be contributing to the problem.

Thanks very much!

 

[Gondwanaland]

epson salt OK?

Epsom Salts sent me to the ER! It is MgSO4 when broken down tends to form an acid in the body
The only form that helped me personally was magnesium oxide and full baths in sodium bicarbonate. If you don't do well on oxide, then try citrate next. I would avoid chloride, sulfate (Epsom Salts), taurate and glycinate (especially hypoglycemic).

At the same time, pay attention to anemia signs - a high B vit supplementation can cause iron/copper defficiency.

 

[rippe]

Tank you guys! This is very interesting! Lot's of useful information.

 

[Gretel]

Epsom Salts sent me to the ER! It is MgSO4 when broken down tends to form an acid in the body
The only form that helped me personally was magnesium oxide and full baths in sodium bicarbonate. If you don't do well on oxide, then try citrate next. I would avoid chloride, sulfate (Epsom Salts), taurate and glycinate (especially hypoglycemic).

At the same time, pay attention to anemia signs - a high B vit supplementation can cause iron/copper defficiency.

Thanks very much. Sorry, just a couple more questions. Did you have a blood test that showed acidosis? What were your symptoms and is it correct you also think folate was part of the cause?

 

[Gondwanaland]

Thanks very much. Sorry, just a couple more questions. Did you have a blood test that showed acidosis? What were your symptoms and is it correct you also think folate was part of the cause?

At the ER they tested RBC/WBC count which were normal and the 1st time I went there they also tested serum Urea, Sodium and Potassium, which were at the top of the range and they considered normal. (However, the normal for me for all these 3 markers is mid range). Nothing else has been tested in blood regarding my symptoms. Body temperature was below 35°C/95F. No other doctor I was seeing at that time thought of checking insulin/glucose levels. A couple of months later my MgO order finally arrived and I could find relief of the symptoms, but ended hypothyroid.
I had the following bolded symptoms, with decreased apetite and rapid weight loss:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolic_acidosis#Signs_and_symptoms
Symptoms are not specific, and diagnosis can be difficult unless the patient presents with clear indications for arterial blood gas sampling. Symptoms may include chest pain, palpitations, headache, altered mental status such as severe anxiety due to hypoxia, decreased visual acuity, nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, altered appetite and weight gain, muscle weakness, bone pain and joint pain. Those in metabolic acidosis may exhibit deep, rapid breathing called Kussmaul respirations which is classically associated with diabetic ketoacidosis. Rapid deep breaths increase the amount of carbon dioxide exhaled, thus lowering the serum carbon dioxide levels, resulting in some degree of compensation. Over compensation via respiratory alkalosis to form an alkalemia does not occur.
Extreme acidemia leads to neurological and cardiac complications:
Neurological: lethargy, stupor, coma, seizures.
Cardiac: arrhythmias (ventricular tachycardia), decreased response to epinephrine; both lead to hypotension (low blood pressure).
Physical examination occasionally reveals signs of disease, but is otherwise normal. Cranial nerve abnormalities are reported in ethylene glycol poisoning, and retinal edema can be a sign of methanol (methyl alcohol) intoxication. Longstanding chronic metabolic acidosis leads to osteoporosis and can cause fractures.

Methylfolate was obviously involved.