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B-Complex without Folic Acid

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by arx, Sep 14, 2012.

  1. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    I'm on Freddd's protocol. I would like to know which B-Complex people are using,which doesn't have folic acid in it.

    I know some recommendations are there in some threads,but I can't find them. So I thought I'd create a thread.

    I was planning on ordering Jarrow's B Right, but it has folic acid. Please recommend and share links to B complex w/o folic acid which you have tried and found effective.


    Thanks!
     
  2. pela

    pela

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    Pure Encapsulations makes 2 kinds, one has more B6. Thorne also makes one.
     
  3. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I use the Douglas brand B Complex with Metafolin.
     
  4. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Thanks pela and Ema.

    If there are any more suggestions,please post here.
    Thanks.
     
  5. dece

    dece

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    Lotus97 likes this.
  6. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Hi dece,

    Thanks. I live in India.
     
  7. LisaGoddard

    LisaGoddard Senior Member

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    Lotus97 likes this.
  8. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    I might be able to find the biocare one but it will be very very expensive. The otc local vitamins are quite cheap here in india. I have found a b complex without folic acid. its called becozyme c forte.

    The thing is that it contains 10 mcg of cyano b12. Should i worry about it? coz folic acid blocks its active form. will cyano also block the absorption of methyl and adeno b12? is 10 mcg an amount that can be allowed?


    Thanks
     
  9. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    Is the Douglas Laboratories B-complex w/Metafolin called Balanced B-Complex? The ingredients say folic acid, but the description says “Folic acid together with vitamin B-12 serves as a methyl donor for biosynthetic reactions”. Can folic acid serve as a methyl donor or must it really be methylfolate?
     
  10. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Little Bluestem
    l-methylfolate is the bioactive form of folic acid. So, folic acid gets metabolized to l-methylfolate. It is said that folic acid and l-methylfolate should not be taken together. Also, people with MTHFR polymorphisms have difficulty metabolizing folic acid and therefore, prefer the active form which is l-methylfolate.
    Regarding the methyl donor question, I guess in the end they must be pointing at methylfolate only. They must be assuming that the folic acid will be efficiently metabolized to methylfolate in order for it to be a methyl donor? Do correct me if I am wrong..
     
    Little Bluestem likes this.
  11. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    I'll bet you are correct that they are assuming that the folic acid will be efficiently metabolized to methylfolate.

    So my next question is: What is the Douglas Laboratories B-Complex with Methylfolate called?
     
  12. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Don't know. Must be called B-Complex only. The brand is Douglas Laboratories. Search on iherb and similar websites. I remember seeing it on some website.
     
  13. soulfeast

    soulfeast Senior Member

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    Body Bio makes a B complex without any form of folate or b12.
     
  14. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I'm looking for a B complex without any folate folic acid/folinic acid/methylfolate. The only one mentioned here was BodyBio's which is quite expensive and has 8000mcg of biotin which I'm not sure I want.

    I was wondering if anyone knows to what degree folic acid blocks folinic acid and methylfolate. I seem to have reacted to a low dose of methylfolate even when I was taking over 1000mcg of folic acid so I'm still unclear if I need to completely eliminate folic acid. It's so much more convenient to just take a b complex rather than everything individually since I'm already taking too many supplements.
     
  15. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    The main reason not to take cyanocobalamin is that cyanide is a byproduct of it:eek: However, 10 mcg and probably not even 100 mcg are enough to cause problems. Rich's protocol recommends a multi with 250 mcg of cyanocobalamin. Although he has said he would prefer that it didn't have any cyano b12, he didn't seem to think that amount would cause problems (especially since it's taking orally rather than sublingually). Also, his protocol uses hydroxocobalamin which protects against cyanide.
     
  16. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I just noticed that BioCare has 2 different b complexes. They have one called Biocare B-Plex and also Biocare B-complex. The ones mentioned in this thread (B-Plex) are the ones without folic acid, but their B-complex does have folic acid. I've found a few places that ship to the US, but I haven't figured out which is the cheapest yet.
     
  17. rachel

    rachel

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    Does the body lower the production of vit. b after receiving it permanantly from outside source?
     
  18. Linda828

    Linda828

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    The Thorne research Basic B complex - New Formula, uses only MTHF (no folic or folinic acid). I ordered the Thorne Basic B complex and got the old formula by mistake, which contains calcium folinate. So be careful if you get the Thorne Basic B complex that it is the New Formula.

    I have used the Pure encapsulations B-Complex Plus (contains Metafolin and MethylB12) and liked it fairly well.

    The Douglas Labs B complex uses vegetable stearate, which I try to avoid. Otherwise, it looks like a really good product.

    It would be really nice if there were a more affordable option for a Basic B complex with only active forms of B12 and MTHF. It is too bad that the Jarrow B-right contains folic acid. Otherwise it would be perfect for Freddd's protocol.
     
  19. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Lotus,

    I use a very basic B-complex from NatureMade, B-Complex with C. It has no folic or B12. Then I add b1, b2, b3 pantethine, p5p, inositol, choline, biotin and scupt it with single item b vitamins. I wish the B-right didn't have any folic or I would take it in a second.

    Folic acid and for fewer people I believe, folinic work something like this. I will describe the folic acid. At a low dose like 400mcg it might work quite well. For some people it doesn'rt work even at low levels, about 20%. About 30% can utilize amounts less than 800mcg. About 50% can utilize up to 800-1000mcg. The theory has been for about 30 years that unconverted folic acid can accumulate until it blocks the channel in some way and prevents l-methylfolate from getting to where it needs to get to. In many trial titrations of myself and others it appears that folic acid can block about 10 times as much l-methylfolate, is it is blocking. Sometimes it just isn't delivering the methylfolate where and when needed but isn't blocking it per se Folinic acid is very similar except that it has a longer halflife. It appears that it can block 10-20 times as much l-methylfolate and it appears to take several days to clear whereas folic acid clears in about 24 hours sufficienctly for methylfolate effectivness, depending upon degree of blocking.

    The only way I know of to find out is to do a trial with no folic and no folinic. If it makes a large noticable difference you will notice. Then you can try various combinations and find out which you can take and which you can't.

    There is a lot of ellimination of possiblities in all this in order to be sure of what is working. After one gets things working well it becomes easy to see what doesn't work and what does. In the end it all makes sense . Part of the problem is that only some pathways are well identified. I was able to define only those I experienced and others that were frequent enough and welll described. I'm hoping that the next few most frequent pathways can be further defined this year. It's taken 5 years to work out this folate business becasue so much of it is paradoxical.

    So to describe folic acid, typically it starts low and positive with small doses as the dose increases it becomes proportionately more effective. Then at some point it tops out at maybe 50% of what is sufficient for healing and then heads down going down to perhaps minus 50%, a blaockage condition. However, without enough MeCbl it can also despite folate insufficiency it it is relatively more common than MNeCbl a person can then trigger into methyltrap an even worse folate deficiency symptoms set..
     
    Adlyfrost likes this.
  20. rachel

    rachel

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    Hi,

    What do you mean by "uses only MTHF"?

    Do you know other companies that produce nutrition supplements without vegetable stearate? Does the quantity in a single capsule significant in lowering the intestine's absorbtion?
     

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