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B-12 - The Hidden Story

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Cort, Jul 26, 2009.

  1. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi,

    I'm back from the unconnected while out in the woods. I had an old computer for writing but no wireless as my current portable became infected a week before I left and I didn't have time to deal with it. In the last 8 weeks the skin all around my nails and on fingers and toes stopped peeling off and being rough and never healing. This happened also after starting Metafolin the first time but went away with the glutathione precursors and the rough peeling resumed. I also put on 35 pounds in the next 18 months after glutathione (precursors) no matter what I did. Now with the skin once again heeling I have lost 20 pounds eating and exercising after putting on the weight no matter what I did. The only change was the glutathione precursors. At the same time I had the worst seasonal allergies I have had in 7 years and some resumption of chemical sensitivity. Finally my need for folate has come down. While I added folinic acid in this period it was after the correction was already occurring and it is not possible to say if it has had any effect. I am down to under 2400 mcg of Metafolin and folinic acid per day and slowly decreasing from 4800mcg or more required to prevent outright folate deficiency during the past 18 months. Despite that my mcv increased from 96 to almost 102 in the 16 months following the glutathione precursors. I will be curious to see if it goes back down now that everything else is correcting. I also had a bout of hypokalemia after 10 days at 7200 feet, perhaps caused by kicking out more red cells to accomodate to altitude or possibly red cells being matured at a smaller size after finally getting rid of lingering results of glutathione precursors. We shall see again at my next appointment. I am feeling better again. However, running around in the sun for a few weeks always does that. Also, I have decreased my prescribed diuretic to 25% of the former dose. Whether my kidney's are working better or maybe my endothelium has stopped leaking so much water out into other tissues I can't tell. This can happen because of side effects of drugs as well as endothelial failure caused by cellular reproduction failure from mb12/methylfolate deficiency.

    Starting a few several weeks before my departure and continuing on my vacation the last few weeks my body has been returning to the pre-glutathione trial condition. On the whole that trial was a disaster lasting 17 months past the end of the trial. My neurology has been improving again lately. I can't explain the mechanism that allows glutathione to disable methylfolate for 16 months following discontinuance but it is there. It also disables mb12 and adb12 to some degree. It's interesting the rapidity with which the skin on my hands and feet healed recently. It is good to be actively healing again after 18 months.
  2. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Gary,

    Let's start at the beginning. Are you taking a b-complex? You state folic acid use, which works poorly or not at all. Metafolin might make a difference. Are you retaining the sublinguals under your upper lip for 45-120 minutes? If not, you are absorbing very little. Are you taking the basics for cell reproeduction; A, D, E, C, Zinc, magnesium, omega3 oils? If not any opf those could be causing no healing. Have yiu also tried aout all thye critical cofactors at the same time to know which ones in combination are effective for you? Good luck.
  3. goldgary

    goldgary

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    thanks for responding. i do keep under my lip and have taken country life B12 with mthlfolate folic acid. my vit d level is 78 so do not supplement. just started taking vitC, benfothiamine and B6, zinc, magnesium, calcium. how much vit e should i take and is it safe to take vit A, i have read mixed info on the safety of taking Vit A my main question is a hot feeling in hands and feet common with B12 deficiency. my palms and feet at times turn very red. these symptoms started 6 months after supplementing and injecting b12. my original symptoms were a feeling of hyperstehesia in lateral arms, wrists and legs. the legs are much better the arms are a little better.


    gary
  4. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Gary,

    Vitamin A is often depleted during illness and healing. It is essential for healing. I doubt that 10,000 IU a day is any problem. mthlfolate folic acid is unknown to me. I have experience with the effectiveness of the Metafolin brand of methylfolate (several vitramin sources) and the ineffectiveness of folic acid. They are not the same thing. What are you taking and what dose.

    my main question is a hot feeling in hands and feet common with B12 deficiency. my palms and feet at times turn very red. these symptoms started 6 months after supplementing and injecting b12

    What brands, types and doses of b12 are you taking and/or injecting. Do the injections give you acne?

    What is hyperstehesia? Do you mean hyperesthesia? If so I experience that during neurological healing or breakdown, depending upon whether I am healing or worsening which is controled by the quality and quantity of mb12/adb12 I take.
  5. goldgary

    goldgary

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    i originally was injecting cyanocobalamin, than hydroxy and now compounded methylcobalamin. i take country life active B-12 dibencozide, life extension L- methlylfolate 1000mcg and jarrow 5000mg methylcobalamin

    i mean hyperstehesia, no acne

    thanks gary
  6. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    B vitamins found to slow progression of dementia

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39066636/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition
    Daily tablets of large doses of B vitamins can halve the rate of brain shrinkage in elderly people with memory problems and may slow their progression toward dementia, data from a British trial showed on Wednesday,
    Scientists from Oxford University said their two-year clinical trial was the largest to date into the effect of B vitamins on so-called "mild cognitive impairment" -- a major risk factor for Alzheimer's disease and other forms of dementia.


    Smith and colleagues conducted a two-year trial with 168 volunteers with MCI who were given either a vitamin pill containing very high doses of folic acid, vitamin B6 and vitamin B12, or a placebo dummy pill.
    These B vitamins are known to control levels of an amino acid called homocysteine in the blood, and high blood levels of homocysteine are linked to an increased risk of developing Alzheimer's disease.

    Read the rest at the link.
  7. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    hyperstehesia

    What is it? I can't find a definition.
  8. goldgary

    goldgary

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    hypersthesia is an abnormal subjective symptom on your skin,, burning, tingling, hot cold etc
  9. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    hypersthesia Is NOT a word.

    hyperstehesia is NOT a word

    The word you may be looking for is hyperesthesia or possibly paresthesia from your definition. What are you really trying to say? Paresthesia can include all sorts of sensations that are not from an external cause and are characteristic of neuropathies.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paresthesia
    Paresthesia (/ˌprɨsˈθiːziə/ or /ˌprɨsˈθiːʒə/), spelled paraesthesia in British English, is a sensation of tingling, pricking, or numbness of a person's skin with no apparent long-term physical effect. It is more generally known as the feeling of "pins and needles" or of a limb "falling asleep" (although this is not directly related to the phenomenon of "limb falling asleep"). The manifestation of paresthesia may be transient or chronic.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperesthesia
    Hyperesthesia (or hyperaesthesia) is a condition that involves an abnormal increase in sensitivity to stimuli of the senses. Stimuli of the senses can include sound that one hears, foods that one tastes, textures that one feels, and so forth. Increased touch sensitivity is referred to as "tactile hyperesthesia", and increased sound sensitivity is called "auditory hyperesthesia". Tactile hyperesthesia may be a common symptom of many neurologic disorders such as herpes zoster, peripheral neuropathy and radiculopathies.
  10. JamesK

    JamesK

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    I've been producing swamp-smelling urine since I began Fredd's protocol. I read him mention it, but is it the result of some sort of detox, or just one of the supplements itself that causes it?
  11. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi JamesK,

    I can tell you what started for me. It lasted for about 10 days and was gone by the time I got into my doctor at a hastily made appointment. It started about 4 hours after I started L-carnitine fumarate. That first day I dumped about 4 pounds of excess water. My stomach was swollen taut and hard like a basketball. My breathing was impaired and breathing while reclining was very difficult. By the time the smell returned to normal I had dumped 20 pounds of water and my stomach was soft.

    I had started the adnosylb12 a few months earlier to good effect. When I added the l-carnitine suddenly my energy level went through the roof and immediately I was able to do 34 minutes on the Nordic Trak at my usual settings instead of 17 minutes as on the day before. I made no other changes. It was a one time occurance that started to fade after a week and was gone after 10 days. I also started rebuilding my muscles that hadn't been normal in more than 20 years by that point and had faded away to mere shadows of their former mass.

    I have no specific theory about it other than it was related to decreasing edema. By the end of the water dump period I had lost about 80 pounds in all of water weight. My tissues are no longer waterlogged and my blood pressure came down about 50 points.
  12. JamesK

    JamesK

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    Thanks Fredd, that's interesting. I was using N-Acetyl-L-Carnitine for a short period prior to starting the full protocol with B12 and other cofactors, and didn't notice the smell then. So I'd personally put it down to something else. I will try the L-Carnitine fumarate instead next as it seems like it might be important though.

    Also, I have felt my stomach quite waterlogged at times for years now. I'm not sure if that's clearing up, but I do seem to have been dumping more water than usual since beginning the protocol, so hopefully the stench indicates some deep deposits being shifted.
  13. velha508

    velha508

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    Hi aquariusgirl,

    You sent me a PM about the amino acids I take - I tried to reply but received an error message stating that your storage capacity had been reached. Here's some info:

    They are a custom mixed powder from a compounding pharmacy - I am a bit surprised but I haven't bothered to find out what brand they use. I had a plasma amino acid test and it showed I was low on most amino acids and provided a recommendation on dosing to correct the levels.

    As I follow Fredd's protocol, I did not include glutamine or cysteine. Also, I had been taking Now brand BCAA for over a month at the time of the test - these amino acids were slightly less low than the others, but no huge impact - the prescription ones are noticably more palatable and I believe absorbable - - after about 1.5 months my hair and nails began to grow again and I noticed other changes related to my hormones/how I felt. Very noticable difference. I truly believe these were a big part of my recovery and I continue to take them now.

    I'll check with the pharmacy and find out who manufactures them.

    Velha
  14. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    Velha
    Thanks. It's great that they are being absorbed.
    I'm beginning to think that our guts are somewhat of a bermuda triangle.. but I guess stuff is still getting thru yours.
  15. lpgautogas

    lpgautogas

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    Nice post... interesting ! [​IMG]
  16. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi JamesK,

    I wasn't suggesting that it was the l-carnitine that caused the smell at all. Just that whatever healing that was taking place to cause the change might have been triggerred by the l-carnitine fumarate.
  17. curry

    curry Senior Member

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    I've been purchasing the supplements needed to do Freddd's protocol - though hesitating regarding the SAM-e.

    I live in Europe and here it is a prescription drug.
    On various medical sites I've read it can cause mania and other unpleasant stuff, and though it is sold over the counter in the US, never should be taken without the supervision of a doctor.

    Hm... :worried:

    Does anybody has had those described negative side-effects?
  18. JamesK

    JamesK

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    It's not prescription in the UK, and the only effects I've read about so far are : it sounds promising in treating depression, and that it plays a role in the methylation cycle.

    I've certainly not noticed any adverse affects after taking it daily for 3 weeks, but I'm not sure I'm actually getting anything from them since I have to chew the tablets up to swallow them, which you're not supposed to do since they have a special, tough coating which causes them to be broken down in a certain specific part of the body...
  19. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi James,

    SAM-e has an enteric coating to delay the dissolving until in the intestine. I believe that immersion in the acid environment of the stomach simply breaks SAM-e down and negates it. When we were experimenting with very small doses, ie 25mg, which nobody makes, we used the Russian doll approach, putting the fractions of a pill into a series of larger and larger capsules, say 4-5 capsules thick, which delayed the release long enough to be effective. It worked. There may be enteric coated empty capsules available but it would take some searching to find a retail supplier but they are available wholesale in vast quantity.
  20. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Curry,

    As regards negative side effects of SAM-e, there are actually very few reported. Caution is advised when being used with an SSRI antidepressant as it does increase serotonin. However, I don'tr find any actual cases of serotonin poisoning from that source. The studies of SAM-e as an antidepressant used a dosage range from 400 to 1600 mg. In this protocol it is used, only after mb12, methylfolate and others have already produced their effects and they are not enough and in doses of 100-400mg. Some people need a little, it would appear, to kick start the process.

    The side effect you mention, "mania" can be temporarily caused for some people by adb12, mb12, methylfolate, l-carnitine fumarate, TMG, B-complex and no doubt a few other things. It appears to be happen when the mitochondria and/or the nervous system has just about shut down and the person feels very energized by any or all of these items despite their working on different pathways. When a person is at 16% (a nonarobic low number) of mitochondrial function for instance and feels totally tired, when the mitochondria fire up at 100% from about half the items mentioned depending upon exact cause, some people interpret the revved up feeling as "mania". This can also happen whjen the nervous systrem has ben barely working and then starts working much better. The effects are like the stereo being turned up to full volume when you turn it on. It takes a while for your internal volume adjustment to bring it down to "normal" perception. When one has been down so long it feels like up and a person no longer has any grounding of what normal energy is, normal energy feels very excessive at first but readjusts in response to stimulous of feeling overdriven. It does "down adjust" after a little while, butr appears to only do so by being too loud for a bit. On the way down the volume got turned all the way up to try to make up for the reduced energy or signal but it happened over years of decades often and thereby wasn't noticed.


    never should be taken without the supervision of a doctor.


    In the USA that warning is present only if SSRIs are being taken or doses greater than 400mg. If a person has already added mb12, adb12, l-carnitine fumarate, methylfolate and TMG chances are there is very little possible effect left for the SAM-e as those substances allow the body to make their own SAM-e. The people who appear to have any genuine trouble, especially if titrated from 100mg, the smallest tablet available, appear to be a fraction of 1%. For me it had about 5% of the effect of mb12, about 1% the effecgt of l-carnitine fumarate and about twice the effect of methylfolate but I took it before thwe methylfolagte since that wasn't available then.

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