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B-12 - The Hidden Story

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Cort, Jul 26, 2009.

  1. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Brenda,

    I have had intense shooting pains in my feet and legs as damaged nerves started funtioning again. Each specific area only happens a few times of a few minutes duration so depending upon the pain it could be connected. Reinnervation has been painful for me, especially my formerly numb feet and certain areas of my legs. I have never had such pain as you describe in my calf. Is that where blood clot pain occurs? Are there other symptoms like swelling? One has to be careful. Sometimes its tough to know what to ignore.
  2. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    Thanks Fredd

    I have heard it from a few people that customs confiscate any package from the US which looks like it has supplements in. I will have to see if i can find out more.

    Brenda

    Yes it is where blood clot pain occurs. No swelling and it has eased a lot. I have drank a lot of fluids as I think I was a bit dehydrated. I do have loss of sensitivity in my feet since the last few months.
  3. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    Houston
    It was definitely more noticeable with the B-Right, but I haven't taken that in a couple of days. It has been bright yellow every time I've taken B vitamins in the past. I'll see what it looks like now, but I've never seen it slightly magenta.

    I don't have the list of items to be tested with me, but I recall yeast, occult blood, and about a dozen other things on there. But I just heard back from the doctor and he said I can continue B12 but not to take anything else. Oh, and there is a saliva test in the kit also, forgot about that.

    Thanks,
    David
  4. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Brenda,

    I have heard it from a few people that customs confiscate any package from the US which looks like it has supplements in. I will have to see if i can find out more.

    I know many many people who order internationally quite sucessfully. As long as none of the prohibited items are on the manifest, everything goes through smoothly. Under $80 avoids customs having to handle it to collect money. Avoid DHEA, pregnenolone and hormone precursors like those. Canada bans l-carnitine for a specific reason. That is not widespread. iherb suggest that folks check with their own countries customs for a complete list of banned supplements. If you do that you shouldn't have any trouble. Even with $4 shipping the b12 should be half the price you are likely to find it locally. The coupon code RED843 will get you $5 off your first order. However, that is considered a method of payment and does not change the $80 valuation. Make sure whether that is actually only $76 of product plus $4 shipping. I've heard of some people running afoul of the valuation limit as the shipping was included in the valuation. Make sure of whether that is the case to have a trouble free shipment. The bad news is that the Country Life, and B-RIGHT and methylb12 all come in heavy dark glass jars for product protection. You can tell by the pictures and shipping weight. So you may want to mix some glass with some plastic bottle items in each package so you can max out the valuation within the 3 pound limit and $80 limit. Most of the items are plastic bottles these days and much lighter. I'll help you with that if you want. That is one reason to order the 5mg instead of 1mg, you get 3x as much actual mb12 for the same shipping weight and twice the price.

    B-Right is 0.79 pounds, Methylb12 is 0.4 pounds etc. Each item is marked to 1/100th of a pound in the product information.

    Good luck.
  5. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    Houston
    Picked up the test sheet at lunch, here is what is on it:
    - stool culture & yeast
    - ova & parasite smear (and identification)
    - bacterial stool pathogens
    - immunoassay clostridium toxin
    - giardia antigen
    - cryptosporidium antigen
    - amoeba histolytica ab
    - H. pylori ab
    - chymotrypsin
    - occult blood
    - fecal ph
    - total intestinal siga
    - intestinal lysozyme
    - alpha anti-chymotrypsin
    - gluten intolerance
  6. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi David,

    Good luck. That was never a test I had to take. It may tell you a lot or nothing at all. I don't know which is better. Maybe having something easy to treat.
  7. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    I agree, not sure which is better or worse :confused:. I did get a supplement list from him, which may or may not change based on the test results. He's recommending:
    - Men Over 40
    - EPA Ultimate
    - Ther-Biotic Complete
    - IgG SD: an immune-boosting dairy-free supplement
    - NeuroLink
    - VitalzymX

    I've never heard of any of them, so still researching.

    David
  8. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    Thanks for all that advice about ordering. You are a sweetie :)
    I have e-mailed iherb to ask them if their customers in Germany are receiving orders but they have not got back to me yet apart from to say they are really busy today answering questions.

    Brenda
  9. winston

    winston

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    B12 - Fredd

    Hi Fredd, Wednesday morning I will start the Jarrow methlyb12. I understand I can put both adb12 & mb12 under my upper lip at the same time. I think I will start out with a crumb and add more depending on my reactions. I actually have been feeling much improved. I have learned in the past when I do a new treatment I only do that one treatment at a time. I am only listening to you, your advice on the exact B12s and how to take them, which supplements to take and what reactions you can expect. I will not add anything different to your receipe or try to change it. I trust your knowledge, research and experimenting with these B12s and believe you when you say you are recovered. Please hang in here with me, so far so good. Thanks.
  10. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    Hi Fredd

    My friends insisted on taking me to the hospital to check out the severe pain in my calf - and then the other calf two days later, and fortunately the doctor's examination and blood test showed it was not a clot. As the doctor did not speak a lot of English he could not tell me what it was but later reading on the internet, it seems to be Charley Horses which can sometimes be cause by low potassium. Could the B12 have lowered my potassium levels? Thanks.

    Brenda
  11. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Brenda,

    The onset of rapid healing induced by the mb12 and/or adb12 and/or methyfolate can cause potassium to be rapidly pulled out of serum causing muscle spasms and potentially other serious problems. That is why I have advised potassium be taken with these supplements over and over again. B12 doesn't lower potassium. Rapid healing lowers potassium, often within 3 days of starting the supplements. Rapid healing can be triggered by taking whatever supplements one is shortest in. Please read the basic information on this thread about what supplements to take and order. I have mentioned potassium in 11 posts on this thread alone not counting this one. I consider it very important cofactor. Good luck.
  12. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    Hi Fredd

    Thanks again. It looks like the cramps are a good sign of healing. I am trying to get some potassium locally and i will stop the B12 for now.

    Brenda

    OK I bought some potassium so have started on them up to 300mg daily. Is it ok to continue with the B12?

    Brenda
  13. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Brenda,

    It will take some weeks or even months for all the healing that is started by the b12 to stop, so stopping the b12 is not a good idea and won't accomplish what you want. Better is to get some losalt type thing at the supermarket, and eat a couple of bannanas. Then look for a supplement which ought to be easy to find. But losalt used in place of salt for a meal will likely make a big difference. There are a number of potassium salt brands you might find.

    By all means continue with the b12. If it is potassium, I've always had relief quickly when taking a potaasium tablet on an empty stomach with a glass of water, about 45 minutes.
  14. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    Thanks Fredd. I already bought some potassium so I would rather use it now plus bananas amd continue with the salt I already use as it was expensive but i will keep on the B12 and get the rest of the things just as soon as I get an answer from iherb.

    Brenda
  15. winston

    winston

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    B12

    Hi Fredd, this morning I started the Jarrow methyl b12 5000mcg. I put 1/8 tablet under my upper lip - anticlimatic. After about 30 minutes jittery, some dizziness and my left calf very achy. Yes I am taking my potassium. One hour later put another 1/8 tablet under my upper lip - jittery but definitely not "knock your socks off" reaction. I can do this. Tomorrow I will start with 1/4 tablet and then an additional 1/4. I started the B-right on 9-3 and started taking 2 of the B-right on 9-6. Started the adb12 on 9-9. Supplements: Vit E, i flora probiotic, citrical calcium, magnesium malate, active C, vit D, potassium, fishol, Udos 3-6-9 flaxseed and Centrum silver. I am a little concerned not having a big reaction, I actually had a bigger reaction with the B-right than with this mb12. Will let you know how I do each day. Thanks for listening.

    Lena
  16. Cece

    Cece

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    Hi Fred,

    I know that one will get a pink/dark tinged urine with methyl b12 injections, but does taking it S.L. produce that also. I thought I read something in all this info where you mentioned something about checking the color of urine after taking it SL.

    Is the excess what one would see in the urine past a methyl b12 injection? Is that why you split your injections into 4 per day?

    Thanks.

    Deb
  17. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Brenda,

    Just a comment on table salt. I use Redmond Real Salt. It is a salt mined in Utah from oceans that dried up a couple of hundred million years ago, no polutants. It has flecks of minerals visable. It tastes very noticably better on food and is sold as a gourmet item. However, a 20 oz bag for $5 lasts me 2 years or so and is no big deal cost wise. It too is available on the web.
  18. winston

    winston

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    B12

    Hi Fredd, just wanted to add when I had my partial remission for 2 years I was on cyanobb12 and also took a B complex which one of the ingredients was b12 cobalamin and folic acid. Discontinued both of those B's 2 1/2 weeks ago. May not be of any importance.

    Lena
  19. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi lena,

    Don't be concerned about the size of the reaction. If you had taken a 5mg all at once it would have been bigger. The titration is for comfort. ANY reaction at all indicates that the b12 is doing something. Big immediate reactions indicat that a person has a lot of the funtional type things that can correct very quickly. Within the sensory end of things, a Just Noticalbe Difference is about 1/3 of a doubling. Photographically that is 1/3 stop or for sound 3 db. So If you have a quart of liquid and put 1 tablespoon of sugar in it, and another with 4 teaspoons, 1/2 of people would notice the difference.

    A good part of the reaction to the B-Right could be that first 10mcg of mb12 being absorbed from that. That tiny amount makes more perceivable difference than the 75mcg or so from the 1/8 of a sublingual. That's just the way our perceptions work.

    One thing I noticed here was a lot of people appeared to have the expectation of no perceivable difference and were getting upset with startup effects. They do indicate that b12 is going to work. More at one time causes more tissue penetration for a shorter time and hence more startup effects. The important thing is getting that b12 to a saturated equilibrium level to be sure it is available everywhere it is needed. For many people startup effects diminish quickly. Going up from a 0.1% saturation to a 1% saturatiion is a 10x change and very perceivable. Going up from a 1% to a 5% saturation is only a 5x increase and a smaller noticable effect. It doesn't mean that it was any less needed.

    Adb12 often has no perceivable startup effect or if it does, it often is never repeated. What effect did you have with it, if any?

    Patience is required in this because cells take their time in reproducing and so forth. As things settle down we can look at what is unaffected and make adjustments from there. There is fine tuning that can be done as each person needs a custom balance of items.

    Make sure you get the methylfolate.

    I'm glad to hear that things are going very well. They could hardly be better.
  20. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Deb,

    Sublingual tablets in usual amounts doesn't normally cause any perceivable difference in coloring. If it does a person is possibly critically short of methylfolate.

    It is amount related. I'll explain.

    The serum half life of b12, any b12, if injected is about 20-50 minutes right off the bat. That means that the serum level drops by 50% in about 30 minutes or so. By the time one reaches 12 hours after dose that is down to about 4 hours serum half life. From 12-48 hours it averages 12.9 hours serum halflife.

    A 2000mcg IM injection is fully dispersed into the blood within 30 minutes and drops like a rock. 90 minutes after injection about 1/4 remains. The urine collected over that time MIGHT show some b12 coloration but very minimal, likely only as a slight darkening of the yellow or a slight (Just Noticable Difference) magenta color if otherwise colorless.

    To get 2000mcg into the serum in 90 minutes with sublinguals would require about 3 or 4 sublinguals 5mg all at the same time. Depending upon folate status one might see a JND of magenta.

    When one performs the 50mg challange test for CNS/CSF penetration taking 10 x 5mg mb12 in 2 hours saturating the mouth which equals approximately a 7.5mg subcutaneous injection in performance, one could expect to see a slight coloration, perhaps 2 or 3 JNDs, again depending upon the persons folate status.

    It normally happens only once per dose and is already being extracted by the kidneys even as you have them in your mouth.

    The SC injection spreads the absorbtion out over more than 12 hours but MOST of it is in the first 3-4 hours.

    The reason I take 3 x 10mg or 4 x 7.5mg injections per day is that it produces a more even serum level above the threshold I need to get CNS/CFS penetration. 30mg all at once would make for very notiocable urine coloration for 6 hours but doen't produce the same healing effect as the more frequent dosing. Unfortunatley I have to have that high dose and frequent schedule to stop nerological deterioration and reverse it. Fortuantely it works or I would be in a wheelchair. Most folks don't have that extreme a need. That is what the 50mg challange dose is about.

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