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B-12 - The Hidden Story

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Cort, Jul 26, 2009.

  1. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Yes Fred, that's true.

    But the PROCESS of these toxins moving out from the cells in your body, through your bloodstream and into urine and feces can be VERY HELLISH for some of us... with some pretty nasty symptoms along the way. I am ALL FOR getting the VERY TOXIC metals out, but I'm preferring to do it S-L-O-W and easy, so that I don't end up with cardiac arrhythmia for five days in a row... like I had the last time I took the B12. I can handle headaches, fatigue and nausea, but not the atrial fibrilation. It's WAY BEYOND my comfort zone.

    I should tell you that I had the same kind of heavy metal detox reaction whenever I've taken Lauricidin, which is a natural anti-viral that also acts as (what they say) is a "MILD" chelator. The metals really OVER-stimulate my nervous system, cause enormous pressure/discomfort in my frontal brain and then set my heart into atrial fibrilation.

    I would love to know what could possibly EFFECTIVELY NEUTRALIZE the heavy metals once they are in circulation (and reeking total havoc) upon the body systems? I've found that high doses of N-A-C are the ONLY thing that really helps relieve my symptoms at those moments. Also chlorophyl and fruit pectin kinda sorta help. If you have any ideas let me know.
     
  2. Sunday

    Sunday Senior Member

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    My two cents' worth on the dizziness thing: I'm a little over 3 months into this protocol. For the first few weeks it was like a honeymoon, but then the proverbial excrement hit the fan. Every time I up my dosage of methylfolate or mb12 I have dizziness and/or orthostatic intolerance. The first time (after the "honeymoon") lasted for two months, with a lot of other symptoms, and was no picnic. I recently re-upped my methylfolate and today just upped my mb12, and am worse in the dizziness/orthostatic intolerance department.

    So why do I keep this up? Because, after each round, every time I stabilize, I am measurably better. For me, progress is agonizingly slow. But I notice things such as: I don't have brain fog all the time. When I do have it, it's much lighter and doesn't last as long. My neuropathies are getting better. My energy level is still low, but at least I have some sometimes; I didn't used to.

    The pattern that seems to be - may be - emerging for me is that whatever gets worse gets better - that is, if upping dosage on or adding a supplement increases a symptom, when I finally come out the other side, when I stabilize, that symptom has usually gotten better. I will say, as Freddd has pointed out, that the first couple months or more seemed to be just random symptoms firing off everywhere.

    I do think it makes sense to check for metals toxicity, as that would probably change the way you do this protocol, or possibly change whether you do this protocol. But I would also point out that methylation is what allows us to detox (at least that's my understanding). Freddd makes no secret of the fact that this protocol produces scary nasty awful effects, but I can understand why it still comes as a surprise, because I find this aspect very disheartening to deal with.

    I think it's important to sort out our fears from the facts: check to see if you have heavy metals poisoning, there are relatively cheap tests for this. If you don't, consider the fact that these reactions may feel wrong because they send us back into the pit of hell, and that is scary.

    This protocol reminds me of Dante's Inferno. When Dante is being guided out of hell by Virgil, they have to crawl over the Devil, who is stuck in this big sort of drainhole in the bottom, the entryway from hell to limbo (that's back when there was limbo). At one point, they make a sharp turn, and Dante cries out that they are headed straight back to hell, Virgil is misleading him. Virgil says, in this dimension, directions get confused; while they are heading in what feels like the wrong direction, he knows it is the right one, because he has made the journey before.
     
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  3. Sunday

    Sunday Senior Member

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    Dreambirdie, maybe this is something that's so obvious it's dumb to mention here. I don't know much about chelation but I do know someone from our area who had horrible toxicity - he was wheelchair bound and the drs said he would die. He had chelation therapy from some local naturopaths and he went from wheelchair to walker to cane to walking by himself and back to life. What he told me is that the naturopathic drs. had a program where they did chelation for a while, then stopped so he could recover, then more chelation. They also carefully monitored the amount of chelation and he took something else - don't know if it was just minerals or something else - in between chelation bouts. Since he was very weak, this allowed him to sort of recuperate and go at a speed he could take.
     
  4. imgeha

    imgeha Guest

    Hi Dreambirdie

    As well as taking the active B12s I also take DMSA on the Cutler protocol to mop up the mercury that is mobilised by getting methylation going. For me, this makes a day / night difference in how I feel. Without DMSA - fluey, fatigued, crabby, depressed: with DMSA - functional, brighter, clear head. Also with DMSA you know that the mercury is being taken OUT of the body, rather than just redistributed as in the case of other binders. I know that some people are against chelation, for reasons I don't understand, but it has made the difference to me of being able to tolerate this protocol and not.

    Nicola
     
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  5. xlynx

    xlynx Senior Member

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    Hi Fred,

    Thanks for the reply, it's a lot easier to tolerate a symptom when you know its for a good cause. Should I be doing the adenosylb12 as well as the methyl b12? If so both in the same day or alternate? I have been taking a B Complex as well so will try adding in the Methylfolate and see what happens.

    Many thanks,
    Jerry
     
  6. xlynx

    xlynx Senior Member

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    Hi Sunday,

    Thank you for your post, really good to hear you comment that after a worsening of symptoms you got improvement.
    I like your analogy about the devil, I'm pretty sure I'm crawling around him often.

    Many thanks,
    Jerry
     
  7. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Dreambirdie,

    I would love to know what could possibly EFFECTIVELY NEUTRALIZE the heavy metals once they are in circulation (and reeking total havoc) upon the body systems? I've found that high doses of N-A-C are the ONLY thing that really helps relieve my symptoms at those moments

    I will keep that in mind as I read. Perhaps NAC is the answer then, to induce the circulation and then bind it to NAC for excretion on perhaps a once a week or once each 2 weeks basis until your level is very reduced. Do you have any idea how you were exposed to so many different metals?

    I had heart arythmias for decades, several a minute often for years. I do understand the problem. Fortunately I no longer have them as long as I have methylfolate, B-right TWICE a day and the methylb12/adb12. They came back with the NAC+glutamine.
     
  8. xlynx

    xlynx Senior Member

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    Hi dreambirdie, what you consider to be a high dose of NAC?
     
  9. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Jerry,

    The adb12 may or may not make a difference. It is critical typically where there is severe fatigue and brainfog, lack of exercise tolerance, muscles that don't repair from exercise damage and don't grow. On the other hand methylfolate can aid absorbtion and utilization of both kinds. Both on the same day is fine. Even both at the same time seems to work well. For me the methylfolate was an incremental improvment in a number of areas but not earthshaking. Others may find it quite intense. I find I do best taking the adb12 6 at a time once a week 2 hours after an injection of mb12. It appears that I need to get it into the CSF, and that makes a neurological difference. This amount of and timing of adb12 appears to be a major area of fine tuning and varies perhaps more than anything else which was evident early on. My daughter finds she has to take it every day, but one daily does it all for her.
     
  10. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Thanks Freddd--

    Please do share any ideas you have on this. The discomfort of these metals being mobilized into my bloodstream is HELLISH. Right now, I'm taking about 3000 mg/day of N-A-C to manage some of my detox symptoms. (These were caused by the Lauricidin I took for viral symptoms about a week ago.)

    This weekend I just started using a new magnesium oil--that's a transdermal form of magensium. It helps to DRAMATICALLY STOP the arrhythmia (within about 15 minutes). BUT.... I'm finding that it actually acts as a chelator to pull out more! So today I am purple under the eyes, aching all over, with pressure in my frontal head, and my nerves are racing, which means my heart will probably go back into arrhythmia.

    This is just crazy making. I feel like I can't win for losing. :(
     
  11. Hysterical Woman

    Hysterical Woman Senior Member

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    Hi Dreambirdie,

    Your descriptions sound awful!! I am so sorry. Magnesium oil can indeed act as a detoxifier but it is usually gentle. In your situation, however, it could be compounding everything. Please keep us updated on how you are doing.

    Take care,

    Maxine
     
  12. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    How about Boyd Haley's OSR to mop up circulating metals? mercury at any rate. I've been using it this way...seems to work...just my impression.

    And yes, when I tried a new form of magnesium that was better absorbed than the pills. I got a very harsh detox reaction. amazing, really. seemed so innocuous..

    also, had hellish detox when i used too much topical iodine. done that twice now. not pleasant.

    sorry to get off topic.
     
  13. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    dreambirdie
    care to share what magnesium oil triggered the detox?
    tnx
     
  14. Hysterical Woman

    Hysterical Woman Senior Member

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    Hi aquariusgirl,

    What brand of magnesium oil were you using. I love the mg oil I am using but have to be careful not to use too much at once or I will have some detox symptoms. Mine is magnesium chloride. Maybe it is the chloride thing?

    And yeah, we probably are off topic - should we move to another thread?

    Good Luck,

    Maxine
     
  15. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    I was using Sun Food magnesium oil. I've taken LOTS Of mag in the past w/o a problem. Up to 1000 mg in a day! I'm feeling suspicious that it was a toxic batch. It just doesn't make sense that I would get so sick and so toxic from magnesium, which has never made me have detox symptoms before. The source for this mag is the Dead Sea, which I don't consider such a pristine source.
     
  16. Hysterical Woman

    Hysterical Woman Senior Member

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    Hi Dreambirdie,

    Could be a toxic batch. I think there is a big difference between brands. It is a different animal to take it transdermally.

    Your oral magnesium - you said up to 100 mg a day - did you mean 1,000? 100 mg is not that much. And what form was your oral magnesium in?

    Hope you are better soon!

    Maxine
     
  17. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    This is just crazy making. I feel like I can't win for losing.

    Maybe, just maybe, your hypothesis about the detox isn't correct. I don't have any hypotheis to put in it's place at this time. But maybe there is something else going on, either in addition to or instead of metal detox. Crazy making apparant results often indicates an explanation malfunction. When going in on a job that is just what I look for, explanations that don't fit the results or that appear contradictory. It often points at something. As the situation complicates there is more wiggle room and more unexpected occurrances and more room for thiongs to go wrong. Good luck in finding what it is pointing at.
     
  18. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Dreambirdie.

    That's a lot of NAC! Dr. David Quig of Doctor's Data Lab, who has specialized in heavy metal toxicity, published a papera few years ago in which he recommended that if significant amounts of heavy metal are present, NAC dosage should be limited to 300 mg per day. The reason is that NAC can move heavy metals across the blood-brain barrier. Paul Cheney has spoken about two PWCs who committed suicide after taking large dosages of NAC. I don't know what's going on in your case, but I think it's worth considering that the high dosage of NAC may not be doing you a lot of good.

    Rich
     
  19. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Hi Rich--

    When I have a metal mobilization, the MAIN thing I use is the high doses of N-A-C. This is one of the only things that rapidly relieves my symptoms. AND HELPS MY BRAIN and nervous system feel much better. I've been using it like this since 2005 and have never been let down by the N-A-C. Without it, I would feel suicidal.

    The other things that have helped me with heavy metal elimination are fruit pectin, chlorophyll and large amounts (3-4 quarts per day) of red clover tea. But they all take at least 2 days to work. The N-A-C works much quicker.
     
  20. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Hi Maxine--

    I am beginning to think that there was something very toxic IN that magnesium oil. It made me feel really ill. I've used another transdermal MAG, that I had no problems with, other than it was sticky and itchy and uncomfortable on my skin. And yes, I have also taken high doses, at times, of oral MAG--up to 1000 mg, w/o any problems. Though mostly I take about 400 mg.

    This recent transdermal MAG that I tried--made by SUN FOOD--gave me all kinds of very awful toxic symptoms. I am just turning the corner on getting over the reaction. I would like to have it tested somewhere to see what is in it. If anyone knows a lab that tests supplements, please let me know.
     

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