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B-12 - The Hidden Story

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Cort, Jul 26, 2009.

  1. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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    Oh, I got mine from somewhere online over Norwich way......I'll check, and post back.
     
  2. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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  3. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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    Last edited: May 7, 2017
  4. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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    @Pheenix997
    B5, pantothenic acid, combines with cholesterol to produce adrenal steroids, end-point of which is cortisol. Cortisol stops you from sleeping. Normal values of daily cortisol are highest first thing in the morning, and cortisol is what wakes us every day.

    B5 after 4pm will DEFINITELY stop you from sleeping. I'm wondering if this was in your "Mixed Bs lotion".

    Other Bs do not interfere with sleep. Some say B6 does, but I've never experienced insomnia from B6.

    B5 stimulation will have you lying exhausted in bed while your mind won't shut up.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
  5. Jaz

    Jaz

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    @Freddd
    Hi Fred!
    I used to have pretty bad numbness in my feet and learning from your experiences i almost reveresed the damage few years ago.
    I got sloppy and it's been awhile since i religiously took them.
    I am now experiencing numb patches on my right toe and index finger on my right hand. And my whole righ arm feels like it's asleep.

    I met a GP today that said B12 related neuropathy is symmetrical so this can't be it. I really doubt what he said. Was your neuropathy symmetrical by any chance?

    /thank u so much in advance
     
  6. juniemarie

    juniemarie Senior Member

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    @Jaz I take B12 and a multi B and it never helped my neuropathy but was does help quite a lot is benfotiamine which is a form of thiamine(B1)
    If you do a search here on PR you will find lots more info about it
    Most people take a higher dose than I do for neuropathy. I'm only taking 150mg 2x a day but its really effective
     
  7. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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  8. Johnmac

    Johnmac Senior Member

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    Don't know, but several of us here have found that transdermal B12 (both types) absorbs better & is thus more effective.

    The scientist who formulated & sells the best brand of transdermal will be able to answer your questions, I'd think:

    enquiries AT b12oils.com


     
  9. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

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    My first post here,
    I'm very glad to have found this forum, this thread and the insights of Fredd on the way to use B12 to get your body bck in shape. I've read the first 15 or so pages, my, what a wealth of information.

    I started methylcob end February, a small dose ( 1/2 a mg) and have built it up to 3, and then backed to 2 because side-effects became too much. Some very good things happened
    a curtain opened up in my head ( there are still more curtains, but one of them is open now), i find now that my stamina for digesting information has grown ( at first I got an awful PEM, taking about 10 days because I had overdone it...). Grown so much that I'm able to read and digest info in English, hooray!!
    hart-frequency lowered from 95 to 80
    all kind of heart arrhythmia's seem to be more or less gone
    even though still sleeping problems, the hours of sleep I get are restorative!!!! for the first time in years!!!!
    I seem to have a little more energy.

    the side effects were a comeback of old problems, I already knew that was to expected. I went lower with the dose when sleeping problems became a major problem again and when i got a ( totally new) persistent pain in the back of my legs.

    the latter worries me a bit. But reading here it might be a potassium shortage?? I would like some feedback on that.

    Happily I just had a blood-check, so next week I'll know what potassium-levels are because the doctor ordered a check on them.

    further I have upped the amount of fish-oil and today started with adcob. reading that the chance of getting nasty side-effects were small.

    I took about an eight of a a mg, keeping in the mouth for the 3/4 of an hour,that did not do much. So after that I tool another crumb of the same size. Then I got a sort of lightheadedness, not exactly dizzyniss. That feeling stayed for about half an hour after I had swallowed.
    but now I find that I may have a little more energy then usual.
    So, feels like a good start.

    I'll keep you posted, this thread gives me much hope of recovering more. I've come from bedbound to housebound, this may well be the next step to recovery
     
  10. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

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    well, only two days later reporting how it goes.
    @Freddd , you're amazing!
    The Dutch B12 institute can learn a thing or two from you ( but they probably don't want that...)

    I'm now on 2 mg metcob and 1,5 adcob.

    the side-effects ( thirst, constipation, dry skin, cracking lips) are probably potassium-related, blood-check gave 4 mmol/l
    so I ordered a pot of potassiumpowder. For now I drink more, and use a sole of celtic seasalt for it. Else I would fuck up my elektrolyte-balance even more, tastes good. I think when the potassium arrives I'll mix it with the sole.

    the pain in the legs ( backside, from the knee up and downwards) has changed now that I take fatty acids first and take B12 later on ( first the adcob and then the metcob, I think that's the way you said it in the beginning of this thread) I need to find that post and print it. It's not as painful, more like a very strange feeling.

    As I don't eat when I get up, i've thought about it. My breakfast often is 3 hours later then coming downstairs. So now I take my fatty acids + vitamin E together with my morningcoffee. ( one has to sin isn't it). The funny thing is, I always took codliver-oil/linseed-oil and lately hemp-oil before breakfast, because it should be good for me. But did not care for the taste. Now it's yummie, really.... I'll add fishoil-capsules as soon as I get them.

    any advice about how much?

    further I feel a bit woozy, the body is very relaxed, that's so nice! And, sleep is getting better ( i hardly dare to mention it) That has started real fast after I started, but there seems to be an upward line. And it's restorative sleep, oh goodness, what a blessing. I still wake up after some hours but it's less bad, feel less sick too. The last two nights I even slept in about half an hour, instead of one or one and a half hour. Happy, sleeping is soo needed.

    One question for you. I want to add minerals, i already did use a lot of vitamins, but not minerals. As I cannot handle zinc ( and only want to try that as the latest, in a very small dose) I wonder what to do with the copper. I tend to take a smallish dose, say a third of the daily advised amount, what do you think?

    I'll wait with getting higher with the dose until I've added the potassium, and feel it's being balanced again.

    And until after I had my appointment with the bank, I so hope I can borrow money, house is mine. But I can't eat the stones, neither pay sups and food with it.
    I do so hope that'l work out, else I don't know how to go further.....:nervous:

    after that I'll raise the dose.

    Oh, and even though I don't yet really understand what you say about folic acid and cyano-cobalamine.
    some years ago, before I crashed but already being very tired, having worse gutproblems etc. I started to take a Bcomplex with folic acid and cyano. Looking back, I'm pretty sure the tingling in my handpalms started after I began to take that, not before. Last weeks that seemed to be worse, and on the underside of my feet too. But your idea that i just feel it better, and that it does not necessarily worsen feels right to me.

    but for many years now I take a B with the right forms of vitamins.
     
  11. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

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    oh, adding, I'm itchy, skin itchy overall. it feels like my histamines are on again, ears are producing too much too. So really feels like histamine again.. Not too bad, must not get worse. are there other reasons for skin-itch?
     
  12. matthew894

    matthew894

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    @Freddd
    I'm wondering if you can help me. I began taking hydroxycobalamin months ago and it initially had a profoundly positive effect. It felt like my muscles were turned on for the first time in a few years, and I could finally do some very basic exercise. However, it didn't last. My initial strong positive reaction to it made me look further into active b12s, etc. and I came across your protocol. I've tried adding methylfolate, but I react poorly to even small amounts (more joint pain, fatigue, brain fog...

    I'd like to discuss your protocol in more depth, in particular the 'donut hole folate deficiency,' as maybe I actually need a lot of methylfolate.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2018
  13. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Sundancer,

    My two usual itch favorites is something stopping methylation, for some reason. However it is often low Methylfolate when I was at lower doses of methylfolate. Low potassium can do it. Dry skin from many causes. All sorts of skin disorders can cause itching, again lack of methylation for any of many reasons causing different skin problems. Low methylfolate could cause high histamine. See the next post.
     
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  14. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Mathew,

    The worst misery of folate deficiency is beneath 4mg/day in my experience. 200mcg was terrible and that is what I started at. I had misunderstandings going on for years. Finally the methylfolate got cheap enough to trial by symptoms without having a cost ceiling and found my zero noticeable folate deficiency symptom and the curve of symptom quantity reduction. Every cell made needs a reaction of MeCbl and L-methylfolate with both nutrients available exactly when needed. Recognizing which changing symptoms are increasing deficiency syndromes versus improving symptoms. Decreasing pain and itching, healing skin lesions of all sorts are good. Worsening lesions of all sorts and rashes, increasing pains, increased misery is worsening deficiency symptoms. They can happen next to each other. Compartments can be from widespread in body to individual cells.

    METHYLFOLATE, DEFICIENCY SYMPTOM APPROXIMATE COUNT AND MCV SIZE DOSE RELATION - VERSION 1.1 02/09/18 - Preliminary
    N = 1, male, 57-69, 200 pounds (after healing is substantial) , 6'1", Probable CblC disease polymorphisms, only L-methylfolate functions. HyCbl, CyCbl, folic acid, folinic acid, vegetable folates, Glutathione, NAC all cause partial methylation block and/or methyltrap without functioning as B12 or folate.

    Additional information from others with some confirmation of others at up to 30+mg. This may be one of those things influenced by genetic polymorphisms. The shape of the curve is similar to some other dose-proportionality curves. Deplin studies at 7.5mg and 15 mg appears to fit right into this curve. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK
    For most of my life I have had changes occur each 2 weeks. In the past 13 years it became clear it was a periodic methylfolate deficiency increase every 2 weeks for unknown reasons, or maybe multiple reasons
    MCV appears to be proportional to the number of days of sufficient methylfolate, 2.5% to 3% of red cells affected per day, having the spread of sizes would tell a lot. It takes me 15 MG TID to have enough folate every day all day. This hypothesis about linkage of methylfolate and MCV is one of several I have preferred during various portions of since it has become obvious that it is methylfolate that has that linkage, for me, and not any of the usual suspects, B12 or B6, in the amounts I take them

    METHYLFOLATE, CU AND MCV SIZE DOSE RELATION - VERSION 1.2 03/11/18 - Preliminary
    N=1, 47 years longitudinal-
    _________Dose______________________MCV________# of folate symptoms____severity 0-10
    1 - folic acid,CyCbl 33 years___________MCV = 99.8_________50>>200________10+_____MeCbl replaced CyCbl after 33 years
    2 - folic acid, MeCbl__________________MCV = 99.8____________200_________10+-
    3 - folic acid, MeCbl, AdoCbl___________MCV = 99.8____________200___________10+-
    4 - 400 mcg MF & folic acid____________MCV = 99.8____________200 ___________10+-
    6 - 800 mcg MF & folic acid ___________ MCV = 99.8____________200 ___________10+-
    7 - 1600 mcg MF ____________________MCV = 99.8____________150___________10+-
    8 - 2.4 mg (800 TID)__________________MCV = 99.5____________100 ___________ 9- estimated start of falling copper symptoms,refeeding syndrome
    9 - 4mg/day (800mcg 5 times/day_______MCV = 99______________20 ____________7-
    10 - 8mg/day (portions TID)____________MCV = 98______________10 ____________ 5-
    11 - 16mg/day (4mg QID)______________MCV = 97.1____________4-5____________ 3-
    12 - 30mg/day (15mg BID)_____________MCV = 94.6____________2-3_____________2-
    13 - 30mg/day, copper falls to <60_______MCV = 100.7___________2-3_____________7- switched to different form of copper
    14 - 30mg/day, copper increases to 66___MCV = 97.x_____________2-3____________ 3-
    15 - 30mg/day. CU increases 74________MCV=97.x______________2-3 ____________3-
    16 - 45mg/day (15mg TID) Cu to 83_____MCV = 91.7_____________0-2____________0- 1-
    17 - 45mg/day (15mg TID) Cu to 67_____MCV = 97______________0-2____________ 0- 1-
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
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  15. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

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    this was a typical histamine itch/reaction. And happily is gone by now.

    and that one may have given it an added boost...
    the dry skin vanished after taking potassium, so that's a clear one ( the thirst, dry eyes etc too. The obstipation took much longer)

    I'll keep that in mind
     
  16. matthew894

    matthew894

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    Hi Freddd,

    Thanks so much for your response. Do you recommend jumping to a high methylfolate dose of something like 4mg, since small amounts cause symptoms?

    One other question: Is taking SAM-e a good test to see whether someone even needs methylation support in the first place?
     
  17. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Since we're talking about folate, I'll share my current story. I'd been using 2 Mfolate (1000mcg) 3 times/day for 2-3 years. Along w/ nasal B12. About 3 months ago I became aware of angular chelitis. And some other skin stuff. So I increased folate. I ended up going from 2 up to 4 tablets, 3x/day. (I take them sublingually. A few years ago this meant I needed 1/2 the amount I needed when I swallowed). It took me 3 months to finally resolve the AC. I also increased my D3.

    I also had to increase the B12 and B complex. I'd been taking 1/2 Swanson's Activated B complex, AM and midday, so 1 capsule/day. I'm now taking 1 whole cap twice daily, to balance the folate. Don't know why my needs changed, but happily, the increases have worked. cheers.
     
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