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B-12 - The Hidden Story

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Cort, Jul 26, 2009.

  1. Johnmac

    Johnmac Senior Member

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    Cambodia
    Yep, they can affect the gut. Tho my main symptoms are brainfog & fatigue.

    The way to retire histamine symptoms is to go low-histamine for a while, then carefully reintroduce:

    https://www.histamineintolerance.org.uk/about/the-food-diary/the-food-list/

    It looked a big challenge at first, but doing it has proved easy because the results are pretty good.

    My only remaining problem is my L. rhamnosus yogurt - it's the great gut-stabiliser, but it also generates histamine. So I have sometimes fixed my gut & given myself histamine symptoms simultaneously. But finding that balance is a relatively minor problem.
     
  2. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    DAO should break down histamines. Still I wonder if your symptoms aren't related to something else...
     
  3. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Why such a high niacin dose, if I can ask?
    It seems like it will only push your need for methyl groups higher.

    If you're trying to speed up your methylation cycle the niacin is acting like a powerful brake. Probably you would need far less folate and B12 with a much lower niacin dose.

    Just my 2c.
     
  4. Jimbo39

    Jimbo39 Senior Member

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    If you were to guess, what do you think it would be?

    I noticed black tea is a DAO. I've been trying to quit because caffeine causes cortisol surges but I find myself really craving it. I thought my body was craving caffeine but maybe it's wanting DAO?

    This is a whole new field for me so it'll take some research.
     
  5. Jimbo39

    Jimbo39 Senior Member

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    I started taking niacin as a vasodilator and to help me sleep. I forgot about FREDDD saying it can be used to prevent "over methylation". This is an example of trying to address one thing and compounding another. I'll cut back and see what happens.
     
  6. Jimbo39

    Jimbo39 Senior Member

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    @derob31 I don't want to be hogging this thread but my mind keeps going back to LCF. What does it do?
     
  7. SMPN

    SMPN

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    Hi, all. A silly logistical question. If one needs to totrate up to 10-20 mg of methyl b12, how is this really possible with ET lozenges that are only 1 mg each? Really, I'm going to consume half the bottle per day? Is there not a 5 mg option that is decent? Thank you!
     
  8. Johnmac

    Johnmac Senior Member

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    It's a really good logistical question, especially when even low-ish does can give you tooth cavities.

    My solution (there may be others) was to switch to the transdermal B12 oils, which provide better uptake anyway (more cellular penetration per mg of B12), and a more even ride.
     
    Sidney likes this.
  9. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Yes, 5mg lozenges are the way to go for that kind of dosage. I use Source Naturals or Solgar's 5mg and they work fine.

    Transdermal oils can also be an effective alternative, if you can get them. (i.e. if you don't incur in issues with customs etc...)
     
  10. SMPN

    SMPN

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    Thanks, Johnmac.
     
  11. SMPN

    SMPN

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    Thanks, Peter. I actually just ordered the Solgar. Seems like they are a good company and their tablets don't have citric acid or fructose which I like.
     
    PeterPositive likes this.
  12. SMPN

    SMPN

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    @Freddd
    And Others-

    I've read all 175 pages of this thread. I do not have ME or CFS. I'm a floxie, someone who's been damaged by fluoroquinolone antibiotics. My body has healed quite a lot over the past 3.5 years, but the nerve pain in my feet, which has improved, is still very much a problem that interferes with my life. I also have a little in my hands.

    By b12 was about 350 right after the antibiotic exposure (never had it tested before). When I tried methyl b12 back then, my legs broke out in a brutal rash much like folliculitis. I eventually figured out it was b12 and stopped. Fast forward 18 months and a naturopath suggested I try hydroxy and adeno. I did and had no negative effects. Fast forward another 18 or so months and my b12 levels were way up but my symptoms were only a little improved. And that brought me to this thread.

    Looking back and at my genetic testing, I think my b13 was always mediocre (unless it was normal and plummeted after Cipro). I also have gene mutations related to MTR and MTRR which relate to methyl b12 and how I apparently need more of it. So now I'm thinking my body just hasn't had what it needs to really heal.

    So now, I've been on methyl b12, titrating up for the last 3 weeks. Right away, even with 1/4 of a 1 mg tablet held in my cheek for 60-90 minutes I felt an intensifying of my pain. I didn't feel it anywhere else. In other words, my foot neuropathy went from a 5/10 to a 7/10. It usually takes only a couple of hours and my feet and ankles are super tingly, twitchy, and sometimes achy too. These aren't unusual symptoms, but they are much worse than I had before. Numbness isn't something I had or have.

    I guess I'd love to hear a little reassurance that these are start-up symptoms and the fact that my body reacted so strongly to methyl b12 is a positive. Because when one is in the middle of the pain, it's hard to be reasonable. Thanks for any thoughts anyone might have.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2017
  13. CCC

    CCC Senior Member

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    I'm answering this so maybe someone else with your symptoms can comment.

    @caledonia has some documents linked in her signature that might help you. My guess is you might have gone too far and too fast. I don't know if you remember, but one lady in this massive thread (Lena) had a terrible time and could manage only a crumb of AdoB12 (we were like that), while others were in crumb-level amounts of mb12. it's so individual. They might suggest you back out a bit.

    Now, pain isn't an issue in this house, but we suspect MTR/MTRR could be. It's been suggested the high dose of B2 we need could be a result of that. So, have a look through this summary of conclusions from several famous B2 threads (one is the infamous B2 I love you!)

    Some people, like @ahmo need a particular form of B2 called FMN. We did for a few months, but we could switch to the cheaper b2 later on. Some people can't.

    Also, have a look at Freddd's symptom list - there's one from Feb 16 that is complete, but the main difference between that and others is the inclusion of copper deficiency symptoms as they were a serious issue for Freddd.

    I hope someone else with symptoms closer to your answers this, but if not, my response might give you a starting point.
     
  14. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Just popping in so you can see my signature link. I have lots of info on methylation, and some stuff on B12 specifically.

    I think it's possible the methyl B12 could be helping. My suggestion would be to reduce the dose until the pain is a level you can tolerate. Then gradually try increasing the dose as tolerated. You may be able to gradually increase over time as healing occurs.

    The serum B12 test isn't really accurate because you can be low, normal or high and still be deficient. It's what B12 is in the cells that's important. The test measures what's in the blood, not the cells.

    However, a low result does mean it's low. The cutoff point for low is different in different countries. In the US, I think 350 is borderline low. In Japan, it's definitely low.
     
  15. SMPN

    SMPN

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    Thanks, Caledonia. I'm at a level of pain I can handle. It's nothing new- just a more intense version. If it lasts for a couple of months, I can push through. It's just always a little scary when it feels like you're going backwards. I'm stable at 3 mg of b12. It isn't a big change from 1 or 2 mg. It was the initial doses of even 1/2 mg per day that caused a reaction. Going up hasn't changed the reaction much. Thanks for the time and words. I appreciate it.
     

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