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Lessons from ME/CFS: Finding Meaning in the Suffering
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B-12 - The Hidden Story

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Cort, Jul 26, 2009.

  1. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    [/quote]


    Hi Pam,

    MeCbl is considered by researchers to have neurological properties totally unmatched by any other kind of cobalamin. Also, Methylfolate is the form that penetrates the brain. I would take the irritations as evidence that they are making it into your brain and being effective in the damaged already brain. The moods appear to be the limbic system which repeatedly causes the symptoms mentioned. Activation of damaged nerves is PAINFUL, and how that gets expressed depends on which nerves it is. The severe headaches, which I used to have, appear to be usually severe pain in the muscles or inflamed veins on the head/neck or nerve pain in the nerves of the scalp etc and they stereo-locate into the head. To get your Krebs cycle going take AdoCbl and LCF as well as methylfolate and MeCbl. It is a 4 way deadlock..

    I've been through it and healed. The theories you choose to use determine if you can heal. Most of the theories won't result in healing. There are dangerous side effects like some of the induced deficiencies or high BP from CoQ10 (causes headaches too) and quite a few unpleasant side effects that are flags of healing.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2013
  2. howirecovered

    howirecovered Senior Member

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    I get migraines lasting around 70 hours from vitamin D and in my search for solutions came across magnesium threonate which is the only magnesium to cross the blood brain barrier. I've been taking it for a few days now and feel more relaxed and sleeping better. note that all the other magnesium types I've tried energize me instead of relaxing me, so there really is something to the MGT/blood brain barrier thing.
  3. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @Freddd, I wasn't able to get back to this conversation yesterday.
    THIS is the sort of guidance I was looking for. Also, I tried 200mcg folate at bedtime, and it didn't affect my sleep, which is what I'd been concerned about. So I'm now taking it in split doses TID. I'll now push up my dosages per your suggestion. Thank You!

    @leela
    ...also, chronic lyme and autism.

    @bertiedog
    GABA might help balance the excess glutamate. Also, pg 5-6 in this Yasko doc suggests Vit K might also help. (Brazil nuts have a good amount of selenium, which might be useful, tho maybe not an answer to any of your questions.)
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/97861218/The-Role-of-Excitotoxins-in-Autistic-Type-Behavior

    And, @howirecovered, again a big THANK YOU for creating that wonderful FAQ page!:thumbsup:
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2013
  4. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Hi Fredd

    What does it mean when we get a huge positive response from carnitine? I've just added it and from the first dose I feel much better. Thank you
  5. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    Do you take any Vitamin A? Some people who get sick from Vit D do well with Vit A. Also, if you have any of the "autoimmune" issues, Viamin A can be good for them.

    Another thing about Vitamin D is that it increases calcium absorption. If one has a lot of acids in the bloodstream, the calcium is used to neutralize them, the blood gets thick, circulation is blocked, and the brain suffers terribly. It's not good to let that happen. I used to try to suffer through my headaches, but that's not good. You can try to thin out the blood some how and improve circulation.
  6. howirecovered

    howirecovered Senior Member

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    thanks Violeta, I do take 20,000 iu Vit A per day... also take a lot of fish oil which I think thins the blood.
  7. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @Freddd: I think I've cracked the code! I think I've finally got a handle on this balancing act. Last night I increased MTHF, taking my daily total from 1.1mg to 1.4mg. I awoke about 4 hours later, needing K+ and Mg. I'd also done a coffee enema, and had earlier taken extra K+ to ramp down the caffeine. But now I needed more, and felt weird, eyes looked weird. I then got smart, and stuck an ET B12 into my gums before I returned to bed. Body tested strong YES! for this. So I've finally been able to correct the balance nearly immediately, instead of just counteracting w/ large doses of K+. Feel fine in the AM, no need for extra K+, but continuing w/ the additional B12.

    My earlier, separate experiences of "overmethylating", once due to excess MTHF, the other excess B12, both created scalp outbreaks. And I'm now reasonably sure that this was the cause of losing my hair in handfuls. My understanding took a long time. Now, at last, I'm correcting the imbalance at the outset, instead of halting my progress. This is just the point you've been making about "detoxxing"--so-called. Certainly that's what I initially thought about my hair loss. It now occurs to me, or rather did last night when I was in an altered state, that this is also the same point at which/for which Dr. Ben Lynch suggests niacin, to overcome the effects of "overmethylation", or too much folate. But it's in fact B12 that's needed, not niacin to mop it up.

    Now I'm really ready to move forward. I can see why I kept stalling here, my responses, both negative and positive, are very quick. And I appreciate your oft repeated reassurances that some of the negative symptoms are inevitable as healing starts. I feel like my methylation system is working for the first time in my life. I've further decreased my thyroid dose, a drop from 60mg T3 to 40 mg during the 9 months I've been on the protocol, and my gall bladder is now fully functioning. I posted elsewhere today that I've now used my little capsule filler to really simply divide Swanson Vit B complex into 1/2 doses....Feel like I'm cooking with gas now! cheers and Happy Hols, ahmo
  8. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Is the jarrow b right complex and others still the ones that are recommended?

    Is there a multi that has most of the cofactors in at but does not have the unwanted forms of folate or B12s in it?

    It is mentioned that all forms of potassium are the same. I have heard differently. Has the opinion on this changed?

    Thanks
  9. Silva

    Silva

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    Hi,
    I have been using Jarrow Formula´s Methylcobalamin for a few days now but today I read one of Fredd´s posts that says that Jarrow changed their formula and that the product is now less effective. I am considering changing to Enzymatic Therapy´s Methylcobalamin but the only one I could find on iHerb says "chewable tablets" on the bottle. Can these "chewable tablets" be taken sublingually or do they (Enzymatic Therapy) have a specific sublingual product? Also, I could only find a 1000mcg dose. Do they have a 5000mcg product?
    Thanks
    Silva
  10. pela

    pela

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    Enzymatic Therapy B12 infusion 1000 mcg is the one. It works best when placed between cheek and gum and left there for 1-2 hours. No 5000 mcg available at this time.
  11. woleile

    woleile

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    Just posting a corrected link to the paper:

    http://www.drneubrander.com/Files/Methyl-B12; Myth, Masterpiece, or Miracle.pdf

    Laura
  12. woleile

    woleile

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    Fredd,

    Are you referring to kyphosis? I had not heard this associated with ME, but my sister and I have ME and my daughter has kyphosis and neck pain.

    Thanks
    Laura
  13. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Laura,

    No. It was strictly limited to my neck. It was a symptom that appeared about 8 years before the 18 pain points of FMS. It was exactly as described and the "reverse curvature of neck" was quoted from the description. It was what caught my attention and explained so much. I had all the symptoms but I hadn't had the tests specified for the Canadian definition and it isn't recognized in the USA. It was commented on by my orthopedic surgeon who was evaluating the damage to my neck from the '72 car crash. He said it was very unusual. This was circa 1982, long before they were even making fun of "yuppie flu" in 1987. I had 20 years of missed diagnoses. It wasn't until 2000 I got FMS/CFS diagnosed, then it was from everybody I saw.
  14. howirecovered

    howirecovered Senior Member

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  15. woleile

    woleile

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    Dr Neubrander was talking about autistic children whose symptoms continue to improve with twice-weekly B12 injections for up to two years, although after the first few injections they can no longer be said to have a deficiency.
    howirecovered likes this.
  16. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @Freddd,
    I've been proceeding with this, it's been a week now. (only a week??!) This progress is working for me, I'm up to 2.3 mg MFolate, 2.4 tomorrow. No problems at all. And, another mark of success: 2 years ago I discovered hypothalamus and adrenal glandulars. These were life-saving in my then-deteriorating condition. Now I've been able to decrease these to daily instead of AM/PM, with no negative results whatsoever. A Happy New Year to all. ahmo
  17. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Out of interest has anyone tried raising their glutathione directly through i.v. Or liposomal approach?

    What were the results?
  18. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Woleile,

    That's because the DEFINITION itself is faulty. The damage done in 1 year of deficiency can take a lifetime to heal, and it takes lots more to heal than to prevent.
  19. lefti2003

    lefti2003

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    Hi,
    I am new to this forum. I am b12 deficient in 12-2009 I had a b12/folate read of 382/15.6. Then in 4-2013 it was 487/19.5. My potassium in 6-2012 was 4.5 and in 08-2013 it was 4.6. I tried the methylb12 1000mcg (Jarrow sublingual). The first day 12-19-2013 I took only about 1/4 under my tongue. The second day I cut it into 4 pieces and took 8 pieces throughout the day so 2000 mcg. I was on vacation at this time. The third day I only took about 4 pieces totaling 1000 mcg. The last day 12-22-2013 I just took one piece 250 mcg. On the third day I did notice some muscle spasms and ate a few figs/ cashews. That seemed to stop them. Later when I was able to get to a vitamin store I did take a few 100mg doses of potassium. I stopped the treatment since I was out of town at the time and wanted to be closer to home. So on 12-25-13 I took a multivitamin Source naturals. They say to take 2-4 a day. The first day I took 1. The second day 12-26-13 I took two. I felt a little nausea. I stopped. The next day 12-27-13 I took a New chapter multivitamin which has much smaller doses then the source naturals. I also took a 1000 mg vitamin C. I had some nausea again it lasted an hour or so. Then 12-28-13 I had some nausea close to lunch time. Last night 12-29-13 I had a horrible case of nausea. I could not sleep. I am wondering if it is some bad food, a bug or something from the vitamins I have been taking. I know I did not drink that much water while taking them either. Oh somewhere in those last 3 days I also took 1 capsule of the Thorne b-12 which has 300mcg each of methylb12 and adlb12. The last couple of days I have also been having some muscle spasms. For the last month or so I have also been taking vitamin d-3(2000-3000IU/day) and fish oil.

    I stopped everything to flush my system and am seeking a ND to do the right thing for me. Help me look into my blood work and go from there. Any advice on the nausea and muscle spasms?

    Thanks,
    Lefti
  20. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope

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    Does somebody know if it's okay to supplement with 500 mg potassium doses
    Or should it be more spread out?
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014

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