1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
ME/CFS: A disease at war with itself
We can all agree that ME/CFS is a nasty disease, particularly in its severe form, but there are abundant nasty diseases in the world. What is unique and particularly confounding about our disease is that so much controversy surrounds it, and not only surrounds it, but invades it too.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

B-12 - The Hidden Story

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Cort, Jul 26, 2009.

  1. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,582
    Likes:
    958
    Salt Lake City
    I would suggest that the l-carnitine fumarate be started first. When you get peeled off the ceiling TMG can help calm that or if that doesn't occur then the SAM-e. Start 1 thing at a time. The Dibol Dibencoplex apperars to be far more effective for AdoCbl. The Source Naturals MeCbl was an absolute zero, the worst MeCbl I ever tried. It was indistinguishable from CyCbl. The Anabol Dibencoplex caused a noticeable increase in activity over the Source Naturals.
     
  2. howirecovered

    howirecovered Senior Member

    Messages:
    144
    Likes:
    43
    Since I was never able to find any information about whether people with reactions to vitamin B6, find they get over them with time, I decided to just experiment. I've been taking 50 mg of P5P three times a day with meals for about a week now and I have the impression that the brain fog it gives me is diminishing. Blogged about it here: http://howirecovered.com/break-on-through-to-the-other-side

    Around the same time my energy levels have gone way up, but I have also had a breakthrough with iodine where my body temperature is approaching normal, and I increased my magnesium substantially too. So I don't know where the energy increase is coming from, but very happy that the B6 is not incapacitating me mentally...
     
  3. howirecovered

    howirecovered Senior Member

    Messages:
    144
    Likes:
    43

    thanks Freddd, this is helpful and I will try out the Anabol!
     
  4. LynnD

    LynnD

    Messages:
    26
    Likes:
    0
    Hi
    Am trying to read some digest info. Havnt been diagnosed with anything , and would really like to be able to think clearer and concentrate better and stay on task if needed. I can walk to bus get groceries. Do have MB12 that take a few drops a few times a day.(used to have injections but it effect run out It helps greatly with thinking abiblity, but also causes weight loss and would like to at least get more muscle and possilby bone (just got call am low density) and over 100lbs. Was on SCD (grainfree,sugar free) to heal digestion, helped quite a bit but then relized eating lots of oxalates (almonds,beets...), as very slowly reducing those, have noticed more histamine reactions and now wonder if had that whole life. At first vite B6 helped then caused headaches , so found was defic in B1 and that helped.
    Am fearful of taking Mfolate as trying folic acid 10yrs ago caused geographic tongue (pain). Not sure about this D B12 or A B12, is that just try it and see approach or would the results just got back 23andme help?
    Tried SAMe ~6yrs ago, starting feeling less flat , giggling at silly, and chest pain. Most of my symptoms are from over methyl list but some from under..
    Am trying to get more minerals and figure what low in or not absorbing.sometimes cramps in legs from magnesium.
    Why take Carnitine fumerate if makes you jumpy to ceiling? (tried AL carnitine yrs ago , just got tired)
    saw the starting list, when take D,leg cramps,, vite E caused chest feel weird, will find the A.
    My last K was 4.9. Dr wanted me to see a haemotologist as high MCV,MPV and monocytes (high for 15yrs) and lot platelets (maybe they are just clumping?).
    So to start , take regular stuff then try AB12 (found DB12 local), I rect to quite a few things so go 1 at a time and lower at first.
    thanks for any ideas
    Be Well
    Lynn D
     
  5. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

    Messages:
    2,698
    Likes:
    2,030
    Midwest, USA
    Mfolate and folic acid are very different things. Your reaction to them could be quite different.
     
  6. LynnD

    LynnD

    Messages:
    26
    Likes:
    0
    Thank you Little Bluestem. I know, but am in a phase where just tried 3 new things over last 2 weeks and am so tired in morning. would rather just be tired and wake up in middle of night . (and have a cubboard of supplements to rid of).
    Will get off computer now to see how that increases healing(mouse causes hand pain)
    Wondered when read of Fredd trying things and mentioned effecting urinary B12 test results, is that a home test? or just keep returns to Dr for another test?
    Also noticed fish oil is used and took some (had D also) other morning but severe nausea for hours.
    Only take it 1/wk or eat fish as BP is low and it makes lower.
    Trying to take B5 again, but stomach feels less like digesting food when do, any suggestions, (this time tried pantethine,1/4 of tab).
    Thanks
     
  7. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

    Messages:
    2,698
    Likes:
    2,030
    Midwest, USA
    IIRC, Freddd was monitoring the color of his urine, possible with the help of a color chart.

    I have a lot of trouble with fish oil. It can make me nauseous and/or give me diarrhea. I am having the best luck with fish oil gummies, which are quite expensive. I can tolerate 1 krill oil most days if I take it with a full meal and a digestive enzyme. When I was taking a higher dose of vitamin D, so only took it 4 days/week, I took the krill oil on days I did not take D.
     
  8. LynnD

    LynnD

    Messages:
    26
    Likes:
    0
    Had read on Methyllife,they sell supplements for MTHFR and have Mfolate ,MB12, and HB12. She said the HB12 really helps her. It sounded like someone here found it not good for people?
     
  9. nkm

    nkm

    Messages:
    40
    Likes:
    8
    I thought I would transition my thread over to this one (http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/started-freddd-protocol-about-a-week-ago.23834/)

    This is my current regimen:
    - Before my shower in the morning I take 2.5mg Quatrefolic methylfolate (I got the 10mg caps but split each into 4)
    - I then take 2x1000mcg Solgar MeB12 (I put one tab against each of my cheeks)
    - I take 2000mcg AdB12 at noon (1/4 Source Naturals Dibencozide)
    - I take another 1000mcg MeB12 late afternoon
    - Other supports: 1,200mg slow release potassium, fulvic minerals* (or sometimes Shilajit**), Vit C, D, milk thistle, selenium and 1 cap Country Life co-enzymated B-complex***

    * http://www.fulvicmineral.com/
    ** http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Shilajit-Fulvic-Acid-Complex-60-Veggie-Caps/42730
    *** http://www.iherb.com/Country-Life-Gluten-Free-Coenzyme-B-Complex-Advanced-120-Veggie-Caps/49068

    OK so here is what has been happening over the last few weeks.
    Trial 1: When I started 5mg Mefolate and 2mg MeB12, it floored me!! I had super fatigue, sleep disturbances, absolutely zero drive/motivation, very depressed, crazy anxiety levels and forget a "short fuse"...I had NO fuse, just explosions over nothing!...perhaps even a bit "bi-polar"!

    Trial 2: I stopped and waited for things to settle then I reduced to 2.5mg Mefolate and started at just 1mg MeB12 (Solgar MeB12 nuggets, the Jarrow didn't work for me or my Father for whatever reason!). This combo again caused changes but not as extreme: sleep was impacted where I would get to sleep OK but woke very early OR woke much later than usual...either way, felt totally exhausted. This continued for about 4 days and then sleep reverted to "normal" and I had a bit more energy and a bit of motivation.

    I then added 2mg AdB12, which really doesn't do much for me. Then increased from 1mg to 3mg MeB12 and again, sleep is disturbed and super fatigued, zero motivation/drive, high anxiety, appetite has increased sharply for carbs and fat AND tinnitus has increased, which is a strong indication of neuro-inflammation :(
    Since Ive had CFS since age 8 (viral trigger), my teeth didn't come in straight (ive read this can be caused by lack of methylation for proper gum formation) and now it feels like they are going even more wonky! I hope when methylation is working better, the teeth straighten out somewhat.

    I am now waiting for these to settle and I am hoping for an upswing where I feel some positive effects at which point I will increase the MeB12 again. Seems I am getting a clear reaction to the increases with my current regimen.

    I am reluctant to add in L-carnitine or SAMe as these are supposed to be formed by the methylation cycle itself so to add them in would be a similar logic to adding glutathione which the methylation cycle is supposed to form.
     
  10. mike1127

    mike1127

    Messages:
    53
    Likes:
    8
    I'm looking for advice on restarting methylation because I take two medications that affect neurotransmitters--risperdal, a dopamine antagonist, and Cymbalta (SNRI). I struggle with irritability (would be very extreme without the risperdal). So far I've spent a week taking adb12 with good results (first 1 mg, then 2 mg)--more energy and less brain fog. I tried a couple days with mb12 (250 mcg) and felt extra irritability. I went back to adb12 only. I really should be careful here--according to Dr. Lynch people with certain mutations will overproduce serotonin, epinephrine, and norepinephrine when ramping up methylation.

    Mike

    EDIT: also I am getting a lot of insomnia, not so bad on 1 mg adb12, worse on 2 mg adb12, and worse still when I added the mb12 (250 mcg).
     
  11. Looking for Answers

    Looking for Answers

    Messages:
    11
    Likes:
    0
    Miami
    Hi,

    I have had CFS for 16 years, but only in the last 7 months have I really learned how bad it can be. I am trying to crawl out of the basement, but 2 months ago, my foot started going numb along with all of the other issues, low energy, poor sleep, depresssion, anxiety, messed up immunue system. I came across Fredd and this methylation plan that restored feeling to the feet, but there seems to be so many different threads listing differerent supplements. I was wondering if someone could provide a nice summary of the Active B12 program along with what supplements to start, when to start the b12s. What brand b12s - since that seems to keep changing. The timing of taking the supplements during the day. Basically and update version of this website which I don't think is current.

    http://maartens.home.xs4all.nl/me/RESOURCES/NEW/FredddsMB12protocol.php.htm

    Also, to reverse the numbness in my feet, do I need to start getting methyl B injections or give them to myself. Zone4​
    Also, Fredd - one more question - are you cured. Do you still need to take all of the Vitamin B shots, etc... If you stopped would things fall apart again.​
    Thanks for helping out a newcomer​
     
  12. Looking for Answers

    Looking for Answers

    Messages:
    11
    Likes:
    0
    Miami
    Also, what is a paradoxical folate deficiency and what are the symptoms. I am sure it is somewhere in this thread, but perhaps you can answer here.
     
  13. LynnD

    LynnD

    Messages:
    26
    Likes:
    0
    Was wondering if thats reaction I had years ago to taking a folic acid supplement.
    (paradoxical folate deficiency ), when got painful geographic tongue, or just the deficiency of B12 showing
    up
     
  14. Kerch

    Kerch

    Messages:
    3
    Likes:
    0
    Hi Fred - I'm in the same boat as a few of these recent posters...could you please tell newbies where to find the latest and greatest methylation protocol (doses, brands, timing, responses, etc.)? I've seen several versions and want to ensure I order the right array of supplements. Thank you!
     
  15. Kerch

    Kerch

    Messages:
    3
    Likes:
    0
    Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

    Does this sound right in a nutshell?
    • Enzymatic Therapy MB12
    • Anabol AB12
    • Solgar metafolin
    • Pure Encapsulation B-complex
    • Drs Best l-carnitine fumarate
    • Potassium
    • Vit A,C,D,E and zinc (separately right...avoid multivitamin?)
    • Omega 3
    Avoid: Folic acid, folinic acid, glutathione and precursors

    Titrate slowly!

    Any special considerations if pain and inflammation are my most severe symptoms?

    THANK YOU!!!
     
  16. howirecovered

    howirecovered Senior Member

    Messages:
    144
    Likes:
    43
    Anabol AB12 is a capsule, so I would probably replace that with source naturals dibencozide so you can take 1/8 or one quarter tablet every day...
     
  17. nkm

    nkm

    Messages:
    40
    Likes:
    8
    Hi Kerch,
    I'm sure Fred will be along shortly but as "howirecovered" has stated, I would use the Source Naturals dibencozide instead of the anabol brand.

    In terms of methylB12, I have found the Solgar brand to be most effective. I got "start-up" responses from this brand where I didn't get anything with the Jarrow brand, which is supposed to be a top rated methylB12!!

    Also, I would use the latest 4th gen methylfolate called Quatrefolic as Metafolin is 3rd generation. It is much better absorbed and therefore, better bioavailibility.

    You can also add in "Meriva Curcumin" (it's liposomal curcumin) which can help with the inflammation.
     
  18. juniemarie

    juniemarie Senior Member

    Messages:
    303
    Likes:
    82
    Albuquerque
    I wonder why we are not getting any input from Fred on the latest protocol ? nkm I see from from your post that I just ordered a couple of incorrect supplements. Isn't there a sticky somewhere here where Fred can keep us informed when he has new brands,findings, results from his experimentation, tweaks,things added or things deleted ?
     
  19. juniemarie

    juniemarie Senior Member

    Messages:
    303
    Likes:
    82
    Albuquerque
    @nmk Your not taking the B12 Infusion by Enzymatic Therapy ? I thought that was the latest MB12 according to Fred?
     
  20. howirecovered

    howirecovered Senior Member

    Messages:
    144
    Likes:
    43
    i just updated this: http://howirecovered.com/active-b12-therapy-faq/#changed after reading http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/the-stages-of-methylation-and-healing.21725/
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page