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B-12 - The Hidden Story

Messages
32
Location
Florida
My sleep hasn't seemed to changed. It's still hard for me to go to bed at a normal time and I take sleep aids (see sig). Bed at 2am and up at 11am is typical for me.

I wonder if a couple of those would be better taken in the morning in terms of sleep. Perhaps the SAM-E, TMG, ribose and Carnitine, for example. How do you go with sleep?
 

RustyJ

Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'
Messages
1,200
Location
Mackay, Aust
Hi Rich. A couple of weeks ago there was an article that mentioned methylation (study?) being used to kill a retrovirus, not even sure if it was HIV or XMRV now. Would this be the same methylation as the B12 process, or another meaning for the word methylation? Sorry about the naivety of the post.
 
Messages
514
Hi Rich. A couple of weeks ago there was an article that mentioned methylation (study?) being used to kill a retrovirus, not even sure if it was HIV or XMRV now. Would this be the same methylation as the B12 process, or another meaning for the word methylation? Sorry about the naivety of the post.
You know...well, it sounds odd and it is odd, but it works for me, I tried it when I was sick (I have a terrible memory, can't remember if it was flu but I think it was) but DHEA kills germs and virusses and stuff. It is reported by William Falloon at www.lef.org. William Falloon takes a higher dose of DHEA for 3 days in a row for flus and such. I thought he was crazy but once I had reason to try it and it worked. (It is not a strategy that I would try if not desperate, because my body so likes DHEA that it was not happy being weaned off the new high dose. I am not saying I had a bad reaction weaning off, just that I felt more tired and off). Anyway, here' was lef says about DHEA killing things. (P.S. it also inhibits TNF-alpha): http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2010...a_01.htm?source=search&key=DHEA raise for flu
and here are the relevant bits:

Immune-Boosting Hormones
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and its metabolites have demonstrated powerful immune-enhancing and antiviral effects.50-54 The administration of 50 mg a day of DHEA to elderly men resulted in the following immune enhancements compared to placebo:55

Increase of 35% in the number of monocyte immune cells
Increase of 29% in the number of B immune cells
Increase of 62% in B-cell activity
Increase of 40% in T-cell activity
Increase of 50% in interleukin-2
Increase of 22% to 37% in natural killer cell number
Increase of 45% in natural killer cell activity.
One reason that influenza can be so lethal to aging people is that their immune systems are weakened. A deficiency in DHEA appears to be partially responsible for the age-related decline in immune function.56 One study showed that a metabolite of DHEA augmented activation of T-helper cells and protected mice from a lethal influenza virus infection.54

The article is pretty good - ut also lists melatonin as a powerful immune booster (a surprise, yes?) and Vitamin D. Here is their top ten immune booster list:
1. Cimetidine in the dose of 800 mg (and higher) each day. This drug is sold over-the-counter in pharmacies to combat heartburn, but its beneficial side effect is to boost immune function by reducing T-suppressor cells, thereby keeping the immune system in a hyperactive state.2 While sold over-the-counter, it would still be wise to read the package insert in case this drug is contraindicated for you. For most people, cimetidine provides a powerful immune system stimulation that is particularly effective against certain viruses.

2. High-Allicin garlic in the dose of 9,000 mg once or twice a day. This potent form of garlic will cause painful stomach-esophageal burning if you dont eat food right afterward. The intake of 9,000 mg of this kind of garlic will cause you to reek of a strong sulfur odor, but saturating the body with this pungent garlic is the objective. Garlic has shown direct virus-killing effects in a number of published studies.3,4

3. DHEA in the dose of 200-400 mg early in the day. This is much higher than normal,5 but DHEA has shown some unique benefits in boosting ones ability to mount a stronger immune response and also protecting against dangerous inflammatory cytokine responses that sometimes occur in response to viral infections.

4. Lactoferrin in the dose of 1,200 mg a day. This natural constituent of mothers milk boosts natural killer cell activity and can kill certain viruses.6

5. Zinc lozenges in the dose of two 24 mg lozenges every two waking hours. Please be aware that this is a very high dose of zinc and is considered toxic if taken over the long term.7,8 You should only do this for a few days. Zinc has shown a direct effect of inhibiting the ability of cold viruses to latch onto your cells.6

6. Melatonin at bedtime in the high dose of 10-50 mg (ordinarily, melatonin is taken at levels of just 13 mg per evening). Melatonin induces a powerful immune response and this high dose can facilitate the deep sleep one often needs to fend off an infection. This dose of melatonin will make you extremely tired, so please only take this before bedtime and do not operate any machinery or vehicles after ingestion.9

7. Aged garlic extract in the dose of 3,600 mg a day. There are unique immune-boosting compounds in aged garlic that work differently than those found in high-allicin garlic.10

______________

I want to comment about the zinc dose -- 150mg of zinc per day for 3 days zaps a cold for me immediately (but as you see I have to repeat it for 3 days or I just catch it the next day). I am doubtful that anyone would really need a higher dose. I take a 50mg pill and wait a half hour - if it opens up my breathing, I stop. If not I take another, up to 150mg which always works for me. Zinc prevents you from absorbing copper and insufficient copper leads to osteoporosis, aneurism, and many other difficulties. (So this is not a preventative strategy -- in fact, a dental fixative manufacturer was sued because it contained zinc which caused users to become deficient in copper, which caused ataxia and inability to walk, neuralgia (same symptoms as Vitamin B12 deficiency - because methionine synthase requires copper as a cofactor, so insufficient copper disrupts the methyl cycle)).
 

aprilk1869

Senior Member
Messages
294
Location
Scotland, UK
Zinc prevents you from absorbing copper and insufficient copper leads to osteoporosis, aneurism, and many other difficulties.

It seems to also deplete manganese which can also cause problems.


In humans, manganese deficiency is associated with nausea, vomiting, poor glucose tolerance (high blood sugar levels), skin rash, loss of hair color, excessive bone loss, low cholesterol levels, dizziness, hearing loss, and compromised function of the reproductive system. Severe manganese deficiency in infants can cause paralysis, convulsions, blindness, and deafness.
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=77#deficiencysymptoms
 
Messages
15
Location
Austria
Low Glutathione

If reduced glutathione or SAMe are extremely low on this panel, then methylcobalamin will probably be needed. If not, hydroxocobalamin will probably be fine. Dr. Amy Yasko uses different criteria, based on SNPs in COMT and VDR, which requires running a nutrigenomic panel, but I currently favor this approach because I think it matches the biochemistry better.

Hi Rich,

By now I read the first 122 pages of this thread. So I'm not up to date yet.

I did a glutathione test here in austria. My values:
Glutathione(total) 1504 umol/l Ref.: 500-1500
Glutathione(reduced) 526 umol/l Ref.: 500-1500
Glutathione(oxidized) 1030 umol/l Ref.: 500-1500
Glutathione(ratio) 0,511 Ref.: >1

Is this considered as low? The total value is high, but the reduced glutathione and the ratio is low.

Thanks!
 

RustyJ

Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'
Messages
1,200
Location
Mackay, Aust
You know...well, it sounds odd and it is odd, but it works for me, I tried it when I was sick (I have a terrible memory, can't remember if it was flu but I think it was) but DHEA kills germs and virusses and stuff. It is reported by William Falloon at www.lef.org. William Falloon takes a higher dose of DHEA for 3 days in a row for flus and such. I thought he was crazy but once I had reason to try it and it worked. (It is not a strategy that I would try if not desperate, because my body so likes DHEA that it was not happy being weaned off the new high dose. I am not saying I had a bad reaction weaning off, just that I felt more tired and off). Anyway, here' was lef says about DHEA killing things. (P.S. it also inhibits TNF-alpha): http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2010...a_01.htm?source=search&key=DHEA raise for flu
and here are the relevant bits:

Immune-Boosting Hormones
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and its metabolites have demonstrated powerful immune-enhancing and antiviral effects.50-54 The administration of 50 mg a day of DHEA to elderly men resulted in the following immune enhancements compared to placebo:55

Increase of 35% in the number of monocyte immune cells
Increase of 29% in the number of B immune cells
Increase of 62% in B-cell activity
Increase of 40% in T-cell activity
Increase of 50% in interleukin-2
Increase of 22% to 37% in natural killer cell number
Increase of 45% in natural killer cell activity.
One reason that influenza can be so lethal to aging people is that their immune systems are weakened. A deficiency in DHEA appears to be partially responsible for the age-related decline in immune function.56 One study showed that a metabolite of DHEA augmented activation of T-helper cells and protected mice from a lethal influenza virus infection.54

The article is pretty good - ut also lists melatonin as a powerful immune booster (a surprise, yes?) and Vitamin D. Here is their top ten immune booster list:
1. Cimetidine in the dose of 800 mg (and higher) each day. This drug is sold over-the-counter in pharmacies to combat heartburn, but its beneficial side effect is to boost immune function by reducing T-suppressor cells, thereby keeping the immune system in a hyperactive state.2 While sold over-the-counter, it would still be wise to read the package insert in case this drug is contraindicated for you. For most people, cimetidine provides a powerful immune system stimulation that is particularly effective against certain viruses.

2. High-Allicin garlic in the dose of 9,000 mg once or twice a day. This potent form of garlic will cause painful stomach-esophageal burning if you dont eat food right afterward. The intake of 9,000 mg of this kind of garlic will cause you to reek of a strong sulfur odor, but saturating the body with this pungent garlic is the objective. Garlic has shown direct virus-killing effects in a number of published studies.3,4

3. DHEA in the dose of 200-400 mg early in the day. This is much higher than normal,5 but DHEA has shown some unique benefits in boosting ones ability to mount a stronger immune response and also protecting against dangerous inflammatory cytokine responses that sometimes occur in response to viral infections.

4. Lactoferrin in the dose of 1,200 mg a day. This natural constituent of mothers milk boosts natural killer cell activity and can kill certain viruses.6

5. Zinc lozenges in the dose of two 24 mg lozenges every two waking hours. Please be aware that this is a very high dose of zinc and is considered toxic if taken over the long term.7,8 You should only do this for a few days. Zinc has shown a direct effect of inhibiting the ability of cold viruses to latch onto your cells.6

6. Melatonin at bedtime in the high dose of 10-50 mg (ordinarily, melatonin is taken at levels of just 13 mg per evening). Melatonin induces a powerful immune response and this high dose can facilitate the deep sleep one often needs to fend off an infection. This dose of melatonin will make you extremely tired, so please only take this before bedtime and do not operate any machinery or vehicles after ingestion.9

7. Aged garlic extract in the dose of 3,600 mg a day. There are unique immune-boosting compounds in aged garlic that work differently than those found in high-allicin garlic.10

______________

I want to comment about the zinc dose -- 150mg of zinc per day for 3 days zaps a cold for me immediately (but as you see I have to repeat it for 3 days or I just catch it the next day). I am doubtful that anyone would really need a higher dose. I take a 50mg pill and wait a half hour - if it opens up my breathing, I stop. If not I take another, up to 150mg which always works for me. Zinc prevents you from absorbing copper and insufficient copper leads to osteoporosis, aneurism, and many other difficulties. (So this is not a preventative strategy -- in fact, a dental fixative manufacturer was sued because it contained zinc which caused users to become deficient in copper, which caused ataxia and inability to walk, neuralgia (same symptoms as Vitamin B12 deficiency - because methionine synthase requires copper as a cofactor, so insufficient copper disrupts the methyl cycle)).

Hi rhydra. If DHEA boosts B cell production then it would boost HGRVs since they are supposedly in the B cells. So not sure if this is a good thing. Rituximab supposedly works by reducing mature B cells, thereby killing the virus. However the other factors DHEA works on may help to overcome this, so on balance could be good. What is the link between DHEA and methylation?
 

Little Bluestem

All Good Things Must Come to an End
Messages
4,930
Is There Anyone Around to Answer Questions?

I started reading this thread over 2 months ago and have continued as I have time and in the amounts I can adsorb, but am still less that way through.

I have bought some methlyfolate and am eager to start using it, but have some questions. Is Freddd still around or is there anyone else who can answer questions?
 

merylg

Senior Member
Messages
841
Location
Sydney, NSW, Australia
I started reading this thread over 2 months ago and have continued as I have time and in the amounts I can adsorb, but am still less that way through.

I have bought some methlyfolate and am eager to start using it, but have some questions. Is Freddd still around or is there anyone else who can answer questions?

Hi Little Bluestem,

There are people here who may be able to help you, with general questions regarding Methylation Protocols and "start-up" etc. or you could also make a post at this thread (below), where there are people discussing the subject in great depth. These forums are not for medical advice. For that you should ask your own doctor.

meryl


http://forums.phoenixrising.me/showthread.php?14501-Wrong-Diagnosis-Site-Fredd-s-Protocol
 

richvank

Senior Member
Messages
2,732
Hi Rich,

By now I read the first 122 pages of this thread. So I'm not up to date yet.

I did a glutathione test here in austria. My values:
Glutathione(total) 1504 umol/l Ref.: 500-1500
Glutathione(reduced) 526 umol/l Ref.: 500-1500
Glutathione(oxidized) 1030 umol/l Ref.: 500-1500
Glutathione(ratio) 0,511 Ref.: >1

Is this considered as low? The total value is high, but the reduced glutathione and the ratio is low.

Thanks!

Hi, PhoenX.

I'm guessing that this was either a red blood cell test or a whole blood test (which is dominated by the RBCs). These usually give more optimistic results than the plasma test, which I recommend, so it's hard for me to judge how low your glutathione might be. The RBCs are normally producers and net exporters of glutathione. The plasma is more representative of the status of tissue cells.

It does appear from your results that the red cells are having difficulty recycling oxidized glutathione back to reduced glutathione. This can be due to things that are causing oxidative stress or to a problem with the glutathione reductase reaction, which requires vitamins B2 and B3, together with some intake of carbohydrates. If you happen to have a genetic mutation in glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase, this can also hinder the glutathione reductase reaction.

Best regards,

Rich
 

richvank

Senior Member
Messages
2,732
Hi Rich. A couple of weeks ago there was an article that mentioned methylation (study?) being used to kill a retrovirus, not even sure if it was HIV or XMRV now. Would this be the same methylation as the B12 process, or another meaning for the word methylation? Sorry about the naivety of the post.

Hi, RustyJ.

I must have missed that article. I'd be interested is somebody could point me to it.

Yes, methylation is methylation in the body, so I would guess that the article must have been referring the the same methylation cycle we have been treating, using B12, folate and other things.

In the context of retroviruses, methylation has been suggested as a means of silencing their complementary DNA. The idea is that retroviruses come into a human cell with retroviral RNA, and it is converted to complementary DNA, i.e., DNA that carries the same genetic code. Then this complementary DNA is integrated into the human DNA in the nucleus of the cell.
It is known that methylating DNA will silence genes, and hence the idea is that if methylation is functioning properly, the retroviral genes will not be expressed. I don't know how well this actually works, but in theory, that's how it is thought to work.

Best regards,

Rich
 

richvank

Senior Member
Messages
2,732
I've been on the protocol since early July. I've gotten maybe 20% improvement and seem to have reached a plateau. If anyone has any suggestions regarding my regimen, it would be greatly appreciated. I have been taking the following:

Sublinguals (take as soon as I get up, let dissolve completely under tongue, about 1 hr):
  • Jarrow Methyl B-12 5000mcg, 1 tablet
  • Source Naturals Dibencozide (B-12) 8.6 mg, 1 tablet
  • Source Naturals Coenzymated B-6 (P5P), 17 mg, 1 tablet


Afternoon Supplements:
  • Solgar Folate 800mcg, 1 tablet
  • Pure Encapsulations, B-Complex Plus, 1 capsule
  • NSI D-Ribose, (2 capsules, total 1.5g)
  • Vitacost SAM-E 400mg, 1 tablet
  • Vitacost Alpha Lipoic Acid 600mg, 1 tablet
  • Enzymatic Therapy ADRENergize, 1 capsule
  • Hannaford Zinc, 50 mg, 1 tablet
  • NSI AdvanC, 1000mg, 1 capsule
  • NSI Fish Oil, (1 softgel, 1 gram)
  • NSI Vit D3, 4000IU, 1 capsule
  • Natural Living Iodine Plus-2, 1 tablet
  • NSI Selenium, 200mcg, 1 capsule
  • NSI L-Theanine, 100mg, 1 capsule
  • Jarrow IronSorb, 18mg, 1 capsule
  • Vitacost Probiotic 15-35, 1 capsule
  • Finest Natural Potassium Gluconate 595mg, 1 tablet


Evening Supplements:
  • NSI L-Carnitine Fumarate, 500mg, 1 capsule
  • Source Naturals TMG, 750mg, 1 tablet
  • GTF Chromium, 200mcg, 1 capsule
  • Nature's Way Lecithin 1200mg, 1 softgel
  • NSI Fish Oil, (1 softgel, 1 gram)
  • Vitacost Magnesium Plus, 300mg, 1 capsule
  • NSI Gamma E Complex, 700mg, 1 capsule
  • Himalaya Turmeric, 222mg, 1 capsule
  • Citracal Calcium Citrate with Vitamin D Plus Magnesium, 1 tablet [has half of the following: Vitamin D (as cholecalciferol) 250IU, Calcium (elemental) 500mg, Magnesium 80mg, Zinc 7.5 mg, Copper 1 mg, Manganese 1 mg]
  • Finest Natural Potassium Gluconate 595mg, 1 tablet

Hi, curecfs.

It would be helpful in sorting out what is going on if you could do some lab testing. If it is feasible for you to do so, the Health Diagnostics methylation pathways panel, together with a comprehensive plasma amino acids panel that includes at least methionine, glycine, sarcosine, serine, cystathionine, cystine, and taurine would be very helpful. I prefer the Metametrix plasma 40 amino acids panel, such as is available from www.directlabs.com (also available through some practitioners). Contact and interpretive info for the Health Diagnostics panel can be found in my documents, part 7, in the General Wiki section of these forums.

Best regards,

Rich
 

Little Bluestem

All Good Things Must Come to an End
Messages
4,930
Thanks for the Link to the Newer Thread

Hi Little Bluestem,

There are people here who may be able to help you, with general questions regarding Methylation Protocols and "start-up" etc. or you could also make a post at this thread (below), where there are people discussing the subject in great depth. These forums are not for medical advice. For that you should ask your own doctor.

meryl


http://forums.phoenixrising.me/showthread.php?14501-Wrong-Diagnosis-Site-Fredd-s-Protocol

I am too tired to post anything coherent tonight, but I will post over there in a day or two.
 

L'engle

moogle
Messages
3,219
Location
Canada
Bringing this to the front for new people to see. I guess the term is 'bumping' but I find that a rather irritating word.:D
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City


I'm back sort of, at least starting to climb out of the hole. The holidays were difficult without my daughter as the hole left by her is so very obvious when we are all together. I haven't turned off my observing for the duration. I will summarize what I have found in the past months as it has relevance to many here, while I catch up with what's been going on.

Seeing the xmrv article retraction isn't a surprise at all to me. It never looked at all probable to me in the first place. What I have seen is quite a bit of paradoxical folate deficiency and induced folate deficiency. I spent a month camping in the mountains at a private club with many of the same people I see each year. I got lots of hugs from ladies who had started the mb12/adb12/metafolin last year and were extremely thankful The ones who started on the methylb12/adb12/Metafolin and continued ran into the expected potassium induced deficiency almost universally. Most are doing very well and some needed some fine tuning. One woman who started out doing well, talked with her doctor who then prescribed CEREFOLIN/NAC for the Metafolin component which then converted her good results to terrible results with full blown "detox" which is an induced methylfolate deficiency by the NAC. She discontinued the Cerefolin/NAC and went back to Metafolin. I probably won't find out her results until next year but I would expect them to return to the pre-NAC effectiveness. Her doc of course will have trouble believing that NAC can cause folate deficiency with that much Metafolin.

Some of the most interesting persons were those who had purely neurological symptoms such as sensory hypersensitivity and processing problems. This gets down to the CSF deficiency without the body deficiency. A three dose trial of mb12/adb12/metafolin plus potassium was sufficiently effective for a number of people to sit down with their smartphones and order the vitamins on the spot.


I was able to observe the first few weeks of startup for many of the people. They all had startup effects and they all continued through the startup and were doing well. Some of them were putting in their 2nd orders before I left. When observed in person somehow all of them managed to have expected startup effects and needing potassium was virtually universal. Several people had paradoxical folate deficiency (detox) from folic and/or folinic acid which was correctable in a few days on Metafolin having quite the folic acid. I also uncovered some light exposed mb12 injections linked to poor resutls with acne. Not one of the people had any mysterious problems requiring other hypotheses. Interestingly I'm talking approximately 5% of the population of the membership which is generally healthy. Looking for the induced folate deficiencies of various types found people who were not as ill as the ones also showing the more dramatically ill folks with the body mb12/adb12 deficiencies. Many also had the CSF mb12/adb12 deficiencies.
 

Rosebud Dairy

Senior Member
Messages
167
reporting results -
A single C677T was found in August 2011 in patient who was previously doing the "old" protocol from the "old" thread. Patient's doc tried to start just methylfolate (metafolin form), and patient did remind doc that this could possibly unmask a b-12 deficiency.

Patient had a couple of start-stop crashes (mostly stop-crashes after running out of Jarrow Methyl-b12), and has been trying to increase potassium and magnesium rich foods (or baths)

Patient is low in VIP, VEGF, high in MMP-9.

Patient's mother died in August of heart attack
Patient's child has had post concussive syndrome since August 31. No doctor who has seen this child knows enough about MTHFR to even speculate about any connection between MTHFR and concussion/post-concussive syndrome.

Thank you to those of you who put personal time into all of this and for helping to improve a patient's life!
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
reporting results -
A single C677T was found in August 2011 in patient who was previously doing the "old" protocol from the "old" thread. Patient's doc tried to start just methylfolate (metafolin form), and patient did remind doc that this could possibly unmask a b-12 deficiency.

Patient had a couple of start-stop crashes (mostly stop-crashes after running out of Jarrow Methyl-b12), and has been trying to increase potassium and magnesium rich foods (or baths)

Patient is low in VIP, VEGF, high in MMP-9.

Patient's mother died in August of heart attack
Patient's child has had post concussive syndrome since August 31. No doctor who has seen this child knows enough about MTHFR to even speculate about any connection between MTHFR and concussion/post-concussive syndrome.

Thank you to those of you who put personal time into all of this and for helping to improve a patient's life!

Hi Rosebud Diary,

I will tell you that if patients response is like mine the crash would be expected when stopping the Jarrow mb12 and Ineed about 1800mg of potassium daily as a supplement in 4 doses to keep myself from having constant problems from low potassium. This varies at different times depending upon other factors. Low potassium if continued is the most genuinely dangerous effect of the active b12/folate protocol.

Let us speculate that the child has a difficulty getting sufficient mb12/adb12 into the CNS such as is found in those with CFS/FMS and many other neurological diseases. This would hinder healing. Methylb12 protects against the factor that causes cascading neuron death according to a peer reviewed journal article but I don't have the reference. Both forms of b12 are needed for the CNS and for remyelination along with omega3 oils and basics. Metafolin is also essential. If that difficulty exists, in an adult such as myself at 100 kilos, 10mg sc injections penetrate the CNS. Sublingual doses of Adenosylb12 of even only 10mg (1.5-2.5mg injection equiv.) will ride in with an injection given at the same time. Peak effect from this size dose lasts about 8 hours. I had 2 or 3 concussions betwee the ages of 11 and 21.
 

Charles555nc

Senior Member
Messages
572
I guess I should post this here:

I went through the Fredd approved b12 protocol and got excited about taking potassium, which made sense to me (preventing deficiencies). The only b12 protocol thing I wasnt taking the same brand, as mentitioned, was b12 jarrow and I wasnt taking the adenosbyl b12 at all- which I also ordered the brand suggested.

That said, I had fairly strong negative reaction to potassium. Difficulty Sleeping, worse oral thrush, anger, slightly worse numbness. How would u explain this Fredd/Anyone? I dont know how potassium would cause a deficiency in anything else (I take alot of sodium ascorbate) or cause a hexheimer reaction.
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
I guess I should post this here:

I went through the Fredd approved b12 protocol and got excited about taking potassium, which made sense to me (preventing deficiencies). The only b12 protocol thing I wasnt taking the same brand, as mentitioned, was b12 jarrow and I wasnt taking the adenosbyl b12 at all- which I also ordered the brand suggested.

That said, I had fairly strong negative reaction to potassium. Difficulty Sleeping, worse oral thrush, anger, slightly worse numbness. How would u explain this Fredd/Anyone? I dont know how potassium would cause a deficiency in anything else (I take alot of sodium ascorbate) or cause a hexheimer reaction.

Hi Charlie,

How would u explain this Fredd/Anyone

The potassium is needed when people sucessfully start healing with the active b12. As the normal consumption of potassium in the diet is around 5000mg, and needed, every day I sincerely doubt that the potassium did any of the things you are attributing to it.

Mood changes often result from low potassium, typically depression.

cause a hexheimer reaction

Not at all likely from potassium or probably not even possible. How much of what kind of potassium did you take? That is something that can happen when syphyllis is killed with an antibiotic. There may be an occasional rare situation in which some other antibiotic killed bacterium triggers that but it is extremely rare and unlikely. A doc once suggested to me when the 5th antibiotic tried finally killed the pneumonia bacteria I had in me that I might have had a herx reaction but it was gone in less than 24 hours as is usual. Thrush is linked to potassium deficiency, not to taking it.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/335327-potassium-deficiency-candida/
Candida has a multitude of underlying causes many of which directly link to potassium deficiency.

Thrush is linked to weakened immune system which can result from many deficiencies.

What kind of folate were you taking? What about glutathione? NAC?

What was everything else you also started at the same time. We might find some causes but potassium seems unlikely. More information is needed.