August 8th, 2016: Understanding and Remembrance Day for Severe Myalgic Encephalomyelitis
Jody Smith joins with other ME voices in honor of Understanding and Remembrance Day for Severe Myalgic Encephalomyelitis.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Auto-immune (paleo) - losing some weight but feel lower energy, - comments ?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Bansaw, Sep 19, 2017.

  1. Bansaw

    Bansaw Senior Member

    Messages:
    388
    Likes:
    211
    My wife was put on an auto-immune paleo style diet for her lupus and I said I would join her on it.
    I was hoping to reduce some potential inflammation, and bring some gut healing.

    Its basically meat and vegetables and fruit. But its also low carb, not even allowing potatoes, eggs or rice.
    I've lost some weight but feel lower physical/mental energy.
    Has anyone else here not done well on this type of diet, or is it just me? My body feels like its missing something, but don't know what. I might have to break out of the diet and get some carbs. But at the same time I feel, "this diet should be doing me good, I'm losing some weight, should I stick with it?"
     
  2. Hugo

    Hugo Senior Member

    Messages:
    227
    Likes:
    256
    Ive done some version of paleo before, and in my experience my energy returned after a while on it. But nowadays I eat carbs aswell, like potatoes and so on and its better for me.

    Cant you eat eggs, is that high on carbs? I had a lot of eggs during that time.
     
    dadouv47 likes this.
  3. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,939
    Likes:
    1,468
    UK
    @Bansaw

    I did this diet. It take some time for the body to adjust to low carb and I think it would be better done gradually. I went straight into it, but I had some amazing improvement and lost 3 autoimmune conditions. However I felt I needed more carbs than I was eating. I think that my liver was having trouble with high fat and maybe my thyroid needed more carbs. I did start craving carbs and after a year or so began to break the diet with sugar. It ended up with gall bladder attacks and high liver enzymes due to that so I have gone back on carbs for now ie brown rice, oats and quinoa and don't crave the bad stuff anymore. I might go back AIP or stay on some carbs I dont know yet.
     
  4. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,281
    Likes:
    45,823
    I can't do low carb, as it makes me sicker and weaker. Since there is evidence of impairment of energy production in ME patients, it doesn't make sense to cut off a major pathway for it.
     
  5. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

    Messages:
    598
    Likes:
    633
    Austria
    I do low-carb for blood sugar reason, and it only did me good. However, if one goes low carb calories have to come from somewhere, to increase protein makes not much sense (since then the liver through gluconeogenesis just starts to generate glucose endogenously), leaves only fats for balancing the lack of calories (=energy).

    Would suggest to go with unadulterated cold-pressed low omega-6 oils, like olive oil, coconut oil, butter, ghee etc. And from nuts, eggs and avocados.
     
  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,512
    Likes:
    15,076
    As far as I can see, the basic rationale for the paleo diet (stone-age diet), the specific carbohydrate diet (SCD), the GAPS diet and the FODMAP diet is essentially the same: these diets are all designed to stop partially digested carbohydrates reaching the colon, where they can feed bad bacteria.

    The idea in all these diets is that you only eat carbohydrates which can be instantly absorbed without needing any prior digestion via digestive enzymes: because these instantly assimilated carbohydrates get completely absorbed into the bloodstream as they pass along the small intestine, they will never reach the colon, so there is no chance that they will feed pathogenic bacteria in the colon.

    That then narrows your carbohydrate eating choices down to glucose and fructose (the sugar found in fruit), because these are immediately absorbed in the small intestine. Other carbohydrates like sucrose, lactose, maltose (the disaccharides), as well as complex carbohydrates (polysaccharides) like grains, potatoes, rice and maize must first be broken down by digestive enzymes before they can be absorbed, and that is why there is a risk these carbohydrates can pass only partially digested into the colon, where they feed bad bacteria, and that in turn may worsen autoimmunity and other diseases (so the theory goes).

    Normally there are no bacteria at all in the small intestine (except in cases of SIBO), so there is no concern about the carbohydrates feeding bacteria in the small intestine; the only concern is if undigested carbohydrates reach the colon.

    So that appears to be the essence of all these diets. The paleo diet is actually a little bit less strict on carbohydrate restrictions, but the specific carbohydrate diet, which is a diet devised in 1924 for medical purposes, tells you exactly which carbohydrates to avoid, in order not to feed the bad bacteria in the colon. So the idea is that after many months (or even years) on these diets, you will starve off any pathogenic bacteria in your colon (especially I would think if you also take prebiotics, which are defined as foods which feed the good bacteria, but which bad bacteria cannot make much use of).

    I have just been looking into these diets in recent days, and posted some info in this post.



    Because I don't like the idea of giving up all my favorite carbohydrates foods like grains, potatoes, rice and maize, I have been trying to come up with a shortcut method that would provide the same benefits as these diets, but without needing to do the diet!

    I think a good shortcut approach could be to take high doses of supplemental brush border enzymes and pancreatic enzymes with every meal, which include the digestive enzymes responsible for breaking down disaccharide and polysaccharide carbohydrates in your food. That way, you can eat any carbohydrate you like, and hopefully these supplemental enzymes will ensure that the carbohydrates are fully digested and absorbed in your small intestine, so that no carbohydrates whatsoever reach your colon.

    Not all digestive enzyme supplements contain the brush border enzymes that digest carbohydrate (namely the brush border enzymes: glucoamylase, maltase, isomaltase, sucrase and lactase), but there are several brands that do, along with the important pancreatic enzyme for carbohydrate digestion: amylase.

    I am planning to try these brush border enzyme supplements, as an easy shortcut to the full paleo / SCD / GAPS / FODMAPS diet.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
    Hanna, ebethc and Bansaw like this.
  7. Hugo

    Hugo Senior Member

    Messages:
    227
    Likes:
    256
    Yes, I eat a lot of olive oil its the best of all fat to use as an energy source in my experience. I like ghee and coconout oil but just in small amounts.
     
  8. Abha

    Abha Abha

    Messages:
    191
    Likes:
    100
    UK
     
    Hanna likes this.
  9. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,310
    Likes:
    1,854
    I eat Paleo, which I've arrived at by default after discovering that dairy contributed to my IBS, gluten makes my joints hurt, and grains and beans make me gain weight. I cook a lot and use olive oil, coconut oil, ghee, and avocado oil.

    Avocado oil is what I use when I want to saute something in a neutral tasting oil. I also found Primal Kitchen's mayonnaise, which is made with avocado oil instead of safflower or canola oil. It's delicious! The texture is a bit firmer than regular mayo, and it's more tart from lemon. It tastes richer to me than regular mayo.

    https://www.primalkitchen.com/products/mayo/

    Not everyone agrees that sweet potatoes are Paleo, but I eat them several times a week at dinner. I don't know why, but sweet potatoes help my sleep, especially when I eat them with turkey.
     
    merylg and lafarfelue like this.
  10. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,261
    Likes:
    737
    Less fat more carbs would be ideal, I would think.
     
    Tammy likes this.
  11. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

    Messages:
    529
    Likes:
    816
    United States, New Hampshire
    Hi @Bansaw - When I go below just 70-80 grams of carbs a day, I go into ketosis and feel pretty miserable. Do you think you might be going into ketosis?

    Jim
     
  12. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,217
    Likes:
    793
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
  13. Butydoc

    Butydoc President

    Messages:
    612
    Likes:
    1,939
    Hi Hip,

    Your explanation seems a bit confusing to me. From my understanding of the paleo diet and many low carbohydrate diets like the Zone, was to decrease the absorption of simple carbohydrate. Simple carbs like glucose, fructose , sucrose, rice potatoes white bread have high glycemic index which cause rapid insulin spikes.
    More complex carbs like vegetables are more slowly absorbs smoothing out the insulin curve. A few of my friends have elevated A1c hemoglobins which responded to cutting out simple carbs with their pre dietetic conditions improving. Where do I have this wrong?

    Gary
     
  14. dadouv47

    dadouv47 Senior Member

    Messages:
    729
    Likes:
    1,799
    Belgium
    Low carb made me way too weak as well. I decided to eat low FODMAP food as much as possible (but not being too strict) and I cut most refined carbohydrates (except white rice) even if I make some exceptions. I think that's what suits me the best.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
  15. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,922
    Likes:
    4,707
    i also need carbs...its a slow release of energy all day....maybe people who are well can get away with doing no carb but maybe we cannot
     
    merylg likes this.
  16. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,512
    Likes:
    15,076
    I looked at dozens different digestive enzyme supplements, and the following have the highest levels of enzymes that break down carbohydrates (brush border enzymes and the pancreatic enzyme amylase):

    Enzymedica, Digest Gold with ATPro
    Source Naturals, Essential Enzymes Ultra
    Healthy Origins, Digestive Enzymes, Broad Spectrum
    Garden of Life, O-Zyme, Digestive Enzyme Blend
    Garden of Life, O-Zyme, Ultra, Ultimate Digestive Enzyme Blend
    Enzymedica, Digest Spectrum
    Swanson Ultra BioCore Optimum Complete Ultimate Full Spectrum Enzymes


    So I am going to using one of the above.


    I have always wondered whether the autonomic dysfunction in ME/CFS might reduce stomach acid and pancreatic enzyme secretion, since the autonomic nervous system plays a role in secreting these. The brush border enzymes that break down carbohydrates are secreted in the small intestine, but I am not sure if these are under autonomic control.


    I don't know much about methylation SNPs.
     
    vaer and ebethc like this.
  17. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,512
    Likes:
    15,076
    I have never looked into the glycemic index side of things, so I am not sure how these diets fare in that respect.

    In the specific carbohydrate diet, you are eating meat, fish, vegetables, fresh fruits, and foods like honey containing the simple sugars fructose and glucose (but you cannot consume sucrose, nor grains, potatoes, rice and maize).

    I read just now that the glycemic index of fructose is only 19, whereas the glycemic index of glucose is 100. So I would guess if you were on the SCD, but just avoided having glucose, then perhaps the glycemic index of that diet would be fairly low, since then your only source of carbohydrates would be fruit (which contains fructose), vegetables, and perhaps fructose from fruit juices (but you cannot have fruit juices with added sucrose in the SCD).
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
  18. Bander

    Bander

    Messages:
    28
    Likes:
    185
    Diet is almost certainly one of those areas where there will be great differences across the cfs patient population, so it is likely that what works for one person will not work for another. But I thought I'd mention that I've been on a ketogenic diet for about a month now and it has had profound effects. I'm seeing a big increase in alertness and energy. If anything, I'm feeling too much energy, including problems sleeping. It's early, but at least so far I would say that for me the low carb aspect (currently around 20 grams per day) has led to increased energy.

    It could be telling for me that I have had high triglycerides (three and four times normal) and high glucose (mostly fasting glucose, but also A1C). Those are extra reasons for me to use the ketogenic diet because my experience has been that it brings my triglycerides into the normal range (even though I'm eating more fat) and keeps my glucose levels under control.

    As I said, your mileage may vary.
     
    lafarfelue, Art Vandelay and Hip like this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page