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Autism rates keep on climbing

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by natasa778, Jun 10, 2014.

  1. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

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    Yes, and many rampant AIDS patients share the same genes. That is exactly my point.
    Valentijn likes this.
  2. garcia

    garcia Aristocrat Extraordinaire

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    Reminded me of this recent article:
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/06/140610112812.htm
    natasa778 likes this.
  3. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Many perfectly healthy kids have exactly the same mutations. I've never seen anything published which shows those methylation genotypes to be more prevalent in people with autism or ME/CFS or anything else, compared to the general population.
  4. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    Yes but the genes of the 50% of MTHFR have been expressed because of some outside agency.
  5. Helen

    Helen Senior Member

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    Here is one of the studies showing methylation genotypes to be more prevalent in people with autism.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2610366/

    Am J Med Genet B Neuropsychiatr Genet. Dec 5, 2006; 141B(8): 947–956.
    doi: 10.1002/ajmg.b.30366
    PMCID: PMC2610366
    NIHMSID: NIHMS68264
    Metabolic endophenotype and related genotypes are associated with oxidative stress in children with autism
    S. Jill James,1 Stepan Melnyk,1 Stefanie Jernigan,1 Mario A. Cleves,1 Charles H. Halsted,2 Donna H. Wong,2 Paul Cutler,3 Kenneth Bock,4 Marvin Boris,5 J. Jeffrey Bradstreet,5 Sidney M. Baker,7 and David W. Gaylor8
    Valentijn likes this.
  6. manna

    manna Senior Member

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    from the link
    hi man, not sure id equate either "significant improvement" or "complete resolution of symptons" with cure. i might be wrong but im gussing these stats are taken whilst the children are on anti-biotics. i guess theyd probably revert after a period of time. possible they may keep speach or something but id guess they'll have some chronic illness.

    2.25 in the vid his teacher says "i can tell when he hasn't had a course of anti-biotics in a while" (approx quote). it is relevant to me/cfs in that anti-biotics have, more or less, proved an infectious component, at least in part. showing that component is all abx will do imo, unfortunately.
    ahmo likes this.
  7. Cheshire

    Cheshire Senior Member

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    Pr. Montagnier has been recently disavowed by French "Académie nationale de médecine". He is really isolated in France, where autism is a hot subject (the neurodevelopmental theory is just beginning to be recognized, and autism was mostly considered as a psychotic disorder by Freudian flat earth believers, until recently). But meeting opposition on autism theory in France doesn’t mean anything.

    I’m a little bit more worried about his theories on “water memories” whose links with homeopathy are more problematic and seem quite unscientific. It thus muddles a little bit his other works and his credibility. I think he left France and is now working in China.
    barbc56 likes this.
  8. manna

    manna Senior Member

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    exsqueeze me going ot, but its possible that when referring to the earth being flat, people are talking about 2 dimensional reality.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
  9. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    As they say in the paper, "In the univariate analysis, there were no significant differences in allele frequency or genotype distributions at the p < 0.05 level between autistic cases and unaffected controls for MTHFR 677C>T, MTHFR 1298A>C, GST T1 null, GCP 156C>T, or MTRR 66A>G." They're using a very low threshold, so that's pretty good indication of a lack of significant difference there.

    RFC, COMT, and TCN2 supposedly are significant, but they aren't showing the P values, which is dodgy as hell.
    Furthermore, for two of those the more common alleles in the general population are the ones they're saying are more common in autistics, so it's pretty useless as a risk factor or major factor in the disease. And for the third one, even the though it's the minor allele that patients have more of, it's still one that's common as dirt. These also aren't SNPs directly involved in the methylation process, but rather more peripheral.
    Aileen and alex3619 like this.
  10. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I don't know if there are any official studies, but, unofficially, Yasko and other methylation researchers report this.
  11. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    If someone is cured of autism by antibiotics, I would think they wouldn't have a true diagnosis of autism but I am certainly curious about this and will read the limks. Thanks, Alex.

    There is a woman named Temple Grandin who has Aspergers and invented "the hug machine" which swaddles your body to calm the nervous system. She wrote an autobiography which is absolutely fascinating. She has authored other books as well.

    She was first mentioned in a book authored by Oliver Sacks (Awakenings) who some speculate also has aspergers.

    Barb
  12. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

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    "true diagnosis of autism" is pure psychobabble, nothing else. If one was to scratch the surface hard enough in every single case one would find underlying biological/pathological mechanisms instead of that imaginary construct...
    asleep and garcia like this.
  13. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Its a lot like CFS? What is "true" CFS? Does it even exist? Man-invented disease categories often disappear or morph over time. Autism has morphed a lot.

    Once upon a time we had the wasting disease. Then cancer. Then, for example, breast cancer. Now breast cancer is a syndrome, a family of different diseases with similar symptoms, and we have specific types of breast cancer, with specific biochemical markers. Some of the drugs only work on specific categories - give them to a generic patient and you don't know if they will respond. These categories get broken down as we understand more.
    xchocoholic, merylg and Valentijn like this.
  14. Kina

    Kina Moderation Team Lead

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    So comparing the brains of autopsied children with the brains of non-autistic children and finding distinct abnormalities in the speech/communication in the majority of autistic children is psychobabble? Autism has been accepted by the medical commumity as starting in-vitro. This has not been debunked by science and if it has prove it. Posting provocative insulting statements weakens any kind of argument.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
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  15. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    I think genetic causes of autism, and possibly some others (depending on the mother's health) start during gestation. It is not sure however that autism cannot start in the first years of life ... the evidence appears to be selective, though I could be wrong as since its not my area I do not read much of the science on it.

    It must be remembered that the brain changes very rapidly during the first two or so years, and less rapidly for about four more years, and then slowly till the early twenties or something, with moderate changes through the teens. So anything that disturbs this, even if started after birth, might cause a problem. That would be environmental issues, and that includes pathogens.

    Problems in methylation genes seem to be risk factor, not a cause, at least at this time. Its associated, but that does not prove causation. It also needs to be replicated independently ... this research is often ignored, I think, rightly or wrongly, because only a very few are pursuing it and they are not publishing studies that would be considered convincing by most doctors and scientists.

    However its likely that methylation problems are probably a huge contributor to disease, especially in very young people and very old people. The limited evidence there is suggests that people over eighty have extremely poor methylation pathways.
  16. Aileen

    Aileen Senior Member

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    If antibiotics is helping a subgroup and they go downhill every time they go off them perhaps the microbiome is involved. Perhaps they should be investigating probiotics as a treatment for these kids in addition to the meds.
  17. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

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    Kina, my comment was aimed specificallyat that hollow argument that in all cases symptoms appear from birth but are not noticed etc (ie the argument that there is not such thing as regression in normally developed children, 'cos there is solid evidence for that in a large fraction of cases, as well as regressions from mild into severe autism - a brain teaser, yes). Re brain structural changes, yes there are those but again chicken or egg - no evidence that those are pathological (ie not a mere side-effect) as regression cases are never included in those, nor are children who recover/lose their symptoms. Even one of those 'exceptions' can be taken as a proof of concept that 1. those structural changes are not necessary for symptoms of autism to appear (if a normal child regresses at say age 5, did they carry those structural changes all along but they were not causing symptoms, or can one develop symptoms without structural brain changes, here is another brain teaser). Similary with recoveries - a child that loses symptoms never carried those hard-wired structural abnormalities, but still had autism, or they still have the abnormal brain structure but no symptoms of anything. The psychobabble magician claims that these cases are not real, ie no such things as regressions and recoveries - the claim of course is total rubbish and long debunked but still held dear by many. Hope I made myself clear :)
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
  18. manna

    manna Senior Member

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    i should think that adult onset is mostly less severe because the body's structure is not conducive to allowing full blown autism,,although theres no one autistic mean. if it occurs in the womb or post natal id guess it can be more severe. i once read of a study that claimed that 90% of autistic children have some form of bowel disease. interesting that they generally mature earlier. this, imo, is because bowel disease gives them a poor physical grounding and so their bones and body grow to compensate for this. if you get to full size in a body that has grown the way it should then its proensity to be negatively affected is less than a baby or young adult.

    some pedisposing factors that i think are at play...mothers who smoke whilst carrying their baby. babies delivered using suction--shown to cause personality disorders, supposedly. injections at birth and later, dentistry, in particular merrcury fillings, has now been banned for expectant mothers due to fears of how it affects the unborn, the toxic waste coming from the mother, from her perfumes etc, (men are toxic too of course just not carrying babies)..pesticides in the mothers food, traumatic birth environment. after birth you have the 80.000 chemicals to chose from, wi fi, potentially 69 doses of vaccines, life of pesticides, junk food, mobile phones...all contributing factors. im not a big geneticsa fan but maybe there a part there too but next to the physical onslaught body's have to endure, i don't have it as too high on the list. wheat 2-3 times a day everyday doesn't help at all.

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