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Autism and XMRV

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by Summer, Oct 12, 2009.

  1. Mark

    Mark Acting CEO

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    Parvofighter, if one could show indications of a similarity or relationship between autism and CFS clustering - timescale and/or location, and remembering to be aware of differential diagnoses tendencies in different areas - that could encourage interest in the 'autism/CFS/XMRV' theory...if the evidence looked interesting...contemporaneous clustering and epidemiological comparison data anyone...?
     
  2. parvofighter

    parvofighter Senior Member

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    Hi Mark

    Indeed, this would be remarkable research:):
    Keep in mind though that when looking at clusters there might be different epigenetic triggers to cause XMRV to transform from latent to active. And these might be different for autism vs ME/CFS.

    So for autistic children, the trigger might be the adjuvant in a vaccine. By stimulating the immune system to respond to the virus in the vaccine, it inadvertently activates XMRV that might have already been there in the patient's genome, passed down from an infected parent. Maybe clusters are happening because of the geographically-specific timing of vaccine roll-outs? (Just a SWAG). Or maybe there is an Epstein-Barr or Parvovirus B19 breakout that triggers XMRV to activate, both in cases of ME/CFS and autism. We don't know a lot about XMRV transmissibility, but from what I have read so far, epidemics of XMRV per se seem unlikely. I suspect that because of the limited transmissibility of XMRV (i.e. not by respiratory droplets, as PVB19 is), researchers might look for other triggers, hence the EBV's, HHV-6, vaccines, etc.

    Very interesting stuff though. Can't wait to hear more.
     
  3. shrewsbury

    shrewsbury member

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    Tate Mitchel just posted this to co-cure.

    islandfinn:)
     
  4. Frickly

    Frickly Senior Member

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    fresheyes

    I read many of the quotes and was a little surprised at the level of anger. I think the autism group is more pissed off than the CFS group. :eek: I don't think many of the commenters understand what was being said in this interview. I think they are so angry that many are jumping to conclusions about new vaccine for autism and profit making drugs. I think it would be fabulous if, for all these years, my son could have been taking an anti viral that actually helped him instead of several other drugs that had many side effects including stunting his growth. It would be interesting to have a facebook page where these different groups could talk about the implications of XMRV.

     
  5. jspotila

    jspotila Senior Member

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    Can anyone clarify this for me? Insel said that they were on XMRV before the Science paper was published, but that he has not been able to get the paper or data on the autism/XMRV work? Why can't Insel get this data if he was able to get the XMRV info before it was published?
     
  6. fresh_eyes

    fresh_eyes happy to be here

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    Hi j. I took this as all referring not to the Science paper but to an upcoming paper that is in the pipeline, with the first line meaning "jumped on the XMRV [and autism connection] thing even before it [the new paper] was published," meaning now.
     
  7. Advocate

    Advocate Senior Member

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    I know I could google this, but off the top of your head can you name some drugs that stunt growth? I'm concerned about a child I know.
     
  8. Advocate

    Advocate Senior Member

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    Thanks, Frickly,for tipping us off to the comments that followed David Kirby's story on Age of Autism. Here's one that really interested me. (Sorry if it has been posted here before.)

     
  9. Frickly

    Frickly Senior Member

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    advocate

    My son's first diagnosis was ADHD and was on stimulants for a number of years. When he developed Tourettes we had to take him off and he immediatly started losing his baby teeth.

     
  10. bakercape

    bakercape Senior Member

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    Thank You!

    Advocate. As a father with CFIDS who has two children on the spectrum thank you so much for being so proactive!
     
  11. parvofighter

    parvofighter Senior Member

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    HIV infection in children neurodevelopmental (autistic) outcomes and clinical patho

    Found a very interesting article on neurodevelopmental (autistic) outcomes and clinical pathology, and parallels with ASD at: http://vactruth.com/2009/12/22/hiv-...l-autistic-outcomes-and-clinical-pathologies/ . Here are a few excerpts:

    There is a striking correlation between neurodevelopmental symptoms found in children infected with HIV retrovirus and those children diagnosed with idiopathic Autism Spectrum Disorders (of still unknown aetiology). Furthermore, the underlying biomedical pathologies found in HIV-positive children are in many ways identical to biomedical pathologies found in children diagnosed with common idiopathic autism.

    The mechanisms of HIV-injury on host cellular systems have been identified in recent years and these pathologies often very closely match those found in autism, such as chronic microglial activation, cellular calcium overload, oxidative stress, vasoconstriction, glutathione depletion, chronic inflammation of gastrointestinal and central and peripheral nervous systems etc (see list below).

    Many treatment agents used in treating autism, whether with studied and proven beneficial effects or anecdotal reports of reducing autistic symptoms in some affected individuals, have antiretroviral mode of action and have been shown to inhibit the retroviral activity and/or reduce HIV viral load.

    Neurodevelopmental findings in children infected with HIV retrovirus
    Impairments in language, especially expressive language, behavioural symptoms: irritability, lack of social skills, repetitive actions (rocking etc).

    Severity of autistic symptoms in HIV positive children is correlated to levels of retroviral load/replication, as well as CD4+ levels. Symptoms of autism deficits in language, behaviour and social skills in HIV infected children often recover upon administration of single or combination antiretroviral treatments, at least to some degree. Sometimes recovery is complete, with total remission of autistic symptoms.

    HIV infected children sometimes develop normally and regress later, usually between 1.5-2 years of age. This is linked to increased HIV viral load.

    Latent retrovirus can be reactivated by vaccinations. In addition to this, live virus vaccines, especially MMR, often come with a warning for HIV infected individuals with low CD4+ counts inability to mount appropriate immune responses results in vaccine virus persistence. ... These findings have lead to proposals that both immunotherapy and vaccination of HIV-infected individuals should be accompanied by administration of an antiviral drug(s). In addition, it is suspected that exposure to antigenic stimulation through vaccinations may enhance the susceptibility of uninfected subjects to HIV-1

    (reactivation of endogenous retroviruses by external stressors, including vaccinations, has been proposed as causal in other autoimmune diseases, such as multiple sclerosis and arthritis)

    Gastrointestinal findings in HIV positive children parallel gastrointestinal abnormalities found in idopathic autism:

    Leaky gut and malabsorbtion of nutrients
    Dysregulated production of digestive enzymes (impaired pancreatic function)
    Abnormal immune reactions to gliadin and casein
    Lactose intolerance
    Sugar intolerance
    Inability to digest complex carbohydrates
    Inability to absorb fats and proteins
    Gastrointestinal pathogen overload: secondary intestinal viruses, bacterial overload.
    Abnormal immune reactivity to candida albicans.


    This article also has an excellent reference list at the end if you want more.:)
     
  12. parvofighter

    parvofighter Senior Member

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    Conflict of interest for advisers on vaccine safety

    And then I came across this one in the New York Times on conflict of interest re: vaccine safety: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/18/health/policy/18cdc.html?_r=1

    Advisers On Vaccines Often Have Conflicts, Report Says
    A new report finds that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention did a poor job of screening medical experts for financial conflicts when it hired them to advise the agency on vaccine safety, officials said. Most of the experts who served on advisory panels in 2007 to evaluate vaccines for flu and cervical cancer had potential conflicts that were never resolved. Some were legally barred from considering the issues but did so anyway. As numerous medicines have been pulled from the market in recent years, worries have grown that experts may be recommending medical products even ones they know to be unsafe in part because manufacturers are paying them.


    In other words, the Gulf War Illness and Autism lobby - both concerned about potential impact of vaccines on health - have the same fight against entrenched financial interests in the "establishment" as ME/CFS patients do have in fighting the enormous financial incentive for the psychiatric establishment to perpetuate CBT/GET. And so they dig their heels in - in the face of mounting viral evidence. We need a top-notch investigative reporter(s) to take these issues on - it's a disgrace.:mad:
     
  13. Athene

    Athene ihateticks.me

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    Thank you Parvofighter

    Parvofighter thank you for that article about HIV in children - fascinating.

    The conflict of interest in vaccines and medicines goes from top to bottom in the medical profession.
    Family practitioners are bribed to prescribe certain meds over others by being offered.... well here's an example - for every 14 women a GP in the UK could get onto a contraceptive pill called Dianette in the 1980's, he got a free holiday. (My GP told me this)
    Medical researchers are "sponsored" to present their research at high profile international conferences - they have all their travel and accomodation expenses paid and other perks in flashy hotels, on condition they write that a certain drug is the best for treating a medical condition they have researched, even if they actually found it is better to use a nutritional supplement or some other therapy. (A friend of mine who is an ENT doctor was faced with this choice - either miss out on presenting his research because he could not afford to travel to present it out of his own pocket, or lie and push a drug he knew was not best for the patients, i.e. compromise his research quality.)
    And finally, I think we all know the case of Brian Deer, the journalist single-handedly responsible for discrediting the research of Andrew Wakefield into the harmful effects of the MMR in autism by creating a furoroe of controversy in the British press. Wakefield's research has been replicated and confirmed by 10 research teams around the world. Deer, on the other hand, has the following conflicts of interest:
    1. His boss and publisher, newpaper editor Rupert Murdoch, is a member of the board of directors of GlacoSmithKline, which makes and sells the MMR vaccine
    http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2009/02/25/sunday-glaxo-vaccine-cases/
    2. Brian Deer's father was on the team of scientists who invented the MMR and receives royalties from its use.
     
  14. froufox

    froufox Senior Member

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    Thanks for posting that article on HIV & autism Parvofighter, I agree it was really interesting.
     
  15. fresh_eyes

    fresh_eyes happy to be here

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  16. Eric Johnson from I&I

    Eric Johnson from I&I Senior Member

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    Thats an extraordinary claim when Wakefield was investigated not only by Deer but also by others. He gets rubbished by people whose objectivity I respect.

    Are these ten studies published? I realize that mainstream science could be mistaken. But 98% of the time, they arent, so it takes a clear argument to show that they are.

    What are the best five papers in support of the vaccines-autism hypothesis? How come everyone such as Derek Lowe at "In the pipeline" says there is zero formal (non-anecdotal) evidence for it despite attempts to find an epidemiological connection?
     
  17. fresh_eyes

    fresh_eyes happy to be here

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    Do you have links on this, Athene?
     
  18. Athene

    Athene ihateticks.me

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    Research confirming Wakefield's discoveries

    I have two hard copy magazine articles, which I will scan and send to anyone who PMs me their email address (Unless anyone can suggest a better way to share them??)

    One describes the "investigation" by Brian Deer, whose claims were entirely false. I mean they were not just misinterpretation, but lies.

    The other lays out the evidence in defence of Andrew Wakefield laid out at the trial, which is now weighing up the evidence to come to a verdict. The flood of evidence in his defence is overwhelming. This includes details of the ten articles I mentioned.

    I think there may be a follow up trial against Deer when the Wakefield trial is concluded.
     
  19. Who is Athene?

    Someone needs to look into this Athene character. The idea that Deer's father ever had anything to do with vaccines is so laughable that one would have to wonder why would somebody fabricate such a claim? Where did it come from? Who says this? She just made it up.

    Likewise the smears suggesting he has any links with drug companies is just sick. I believe that one started with a smear campaign by someone called Martin J Walker which Deer describes here:

    http://briandeer.com/mmr/mli-information.htm

    In fact, Deer is an award-winning journalist with the highest reputation for integrity.
     
  20. Robin

    Robin Guest

    Hi Scorpio Rising! Welcome!

    We don't screen identities, here. Every member, including Athene, is welcome to post what they wish. Our forums are about the issues, not the people bringing the issues to the table. If you disagree with a member or believe a post is inaccurate, the best thing to do is ask for sources and provide a counter argument of your own.
     

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