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Atlas Profilax treatment

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by globalpilot, Oct 29, 2011.

  1. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Dainty, you made many points, I thought I would quote your entire post, and make a few comments [in blue and in brackets] after some of your comments. I hope this attempt at clarity works. ;)
    Dainty, you make many good points, but as you can probably tell from my notes, I feel you've over-generalized when it comes to the Atlas Profilax technique. I tried not to come across as trying to sway your own opinions/perspectives. But I felt it important to address some things that don't match with my own experience with AP.

    I might add that the AP practitioner in the Twin Cities who's also a Chiropractor has completely changed his orientation regarding structural issues. He made a comment to me that at "continuing education" classes he's required to take, he has to make efforts to refrain from telling the instructers and the attendees that they "have it all wrong". But he then said he understands they're just not ready to hear it. I would guess that he probably knows hundreds of techniques that can be used to address structural issues. But has come to the conviction the AP should be a (the?) primary consideration when starting on a path of addressing a body's long-term structural issues.

    I appreciate the time and effort you put into your post. Though I pointed out some areas where I'm in disagreement, it sure feels like I'm in agreement with 90%+ of what you had to share. Thanks! :)
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2014
    Lou likes this.
  2. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    @WoolPippi, @leela,

    Your comments reminded me of another modality I've been interested in, and plan to pursue this coming year. It's called KENTRO. It sounds like this approach might be tailer made to what your aspirations are now that you've done the AP. From the Kentro website (which has a 6-minute introductary video):
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
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  3. moblet

    moblet Unknown Quantity

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    I agree with this completely. Part of the art of being your own doctor is being able to recognise whether you've engaged the wrong modality or just the wrong practitioner.

    I'm primarily a structural case, at least as far as is known, and my PEM is usually immediate, like it descends while I'm doing an activity. I know that many who are not in pain report that their PEM hides for 2-4 days and then jumps up and hits them. Occasionally I've had structural shifts that greatly reduced pain for a few days (after which my body crashes into the next shift that needs to happen) and when this has occurred, my PEM briefly changes to the 2-4 day delayed variety. I have to say that it's a lot harder to manage when you're accustomed to instant feedback.
  4. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

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    moblet! haven't seen you around for yonks!
  5. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    I'm currently reading this book, and thought I'd mention one of the testimonials in the book. If you read about three paragraphs at this link starting with "Velma is a seventy-two...", it dramatically illustrates how one therapy alone successfully addressed a 23-year long history of intense intestinal discomfort --- within minutes. I think there's a connection to what can happen with an AP experience, and probably many other kinds. If the therapy is right, the results can seem almost miraculous. --- I know of one man who had had epileptic seizures since a head injury as a child. Getting a technique done called "nasal specific" stopped his seizures, and he never had another one.

    Getting back to castor oil, it's reputed to have a remarkable ability to harmonize our nervous systems. Since there's some sort of neurological integration that needs to take place after any kind of major shift in the body, including AP, I can see where it could be creatively used to help this process along. I think it would have been a good thing for me to use right after I had my own AP. --- If you click on the book below, it will take you to Amazon, where there's 33 customer reviews.

    [​IMG]
  6. moblet

    moblet Unknown Quantity

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    We must have been on different couches.

    @Wayne, the resolution of complex chronic illness from a simple, single intervention undoubtedly occurs, but a big reason why it's remarkable is because it isn't the norm. Chiropractic was founded on a comparable case (of deafness caused by a cervical subluxation, and they've been believing ever since that some vast percentage of human illness is caused by subluxations) and someone I met a couple of years ago said a friend of his who'd gone down with CFS was instructed by a naturopath to drink lots of water, and subsequently returned to normal health. It happens. I don't, however, believe that it's realistic to expect that this is how one's recovery should or will come about, especially if it causes one to eschew treatments and/or management strategies that show prospects of bringing benefit but require an investment of time and effort.

    It also reminds me of this industrial joke, which you've probably seen in some guise or another:

    There was an engineer who had an exceptional gift for fixing all things mechanical. After serving his company loyally for over 30 years, he happily retired. Several years later the company contacted him regarding a seemingly impossible problem they were having with one of their multimillion-dollar machines. It shook and vibrated violently every time they started the machine. They had tried everything and everyone else to get the machine to work but to no avail. In desperation, they called on the retired engineer who had solved so many of their problems in the past. The engineer reluctantly took the challenge. He spent a day studying the huge machine. At the end of the day, he marked a small "x" in chalk on a particular spot on the side component of the machine, took a sledge hammer and hit the spot a smashing blow. Instantly, the machine quit vibrating and ran smooth as silk.
    The company received a bill for $50,000 from the engineer for his service.

    They wrote him a letter saying that $50,000 for hitting the machine was outrageous as any fool could have done that. They demanded an explanation.

    The engineer responded with a new bill stating:
    One sledge hammer blow to machinery - $1.00
    Knowing where to hit machinery - $49,999.00


    Even if we can be fixed with a single strike in the right spot, we could spend a lifetime kissing frogs and never find our prince(ss) if we don't know where to hit. Personally I would not pursue one-shot "solutions" from practitioners who can only see a tiny part of the picture, and from which I will learn almost nothing if they don't work, unless they are addressing something that I reckon I need and which isn't serviced at least as well by an established modality practiced by professionals. In the particular instance of AP, I'm plugged in to the network of my country's best cranial osteopaths, who are the kind of people who can figure out where to hit, and I would always choose that level of skill over a one-shot "product" that, administered by someone who wouldn't know what was right to do in my particular case, would more likely do harm than good. My illness isn't simple. What forward steps I've been able to take have been facilitated by practitioners who have the capacity and inclination to engage with, and describe, simplify and solve complex problems.
  7. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Moblet, thanks for your comments. I'm not "exactly" sure what you're trying to convey with all your points (most likely because of my own brain stuff). But you "seem" to be implying that AP and its practitioners are asserting this treatment is a one-shot solution for just about all that ails a person. It seems similar to what I thought I heard Dainty saying. I guess my own assertion(s) is to try to point out that this is just not the case, at least as far as I can discern.

    The AP practitioner I met with in the Twin Cities not only practices AP, but undoubtedly as a licensed DC and ND, has many other things he incorporates into his practice. He worked on my own 2nd cervical vertebra [axis] when I came in for an AP recheck (at no charge because I had done the AP with another practitioner), using a technique that was not AP. I guess I just don't see how his holistic orientation could be regarded as practicing a one-shot solution.

    Perhaps I'm reading and interpreting these posts incorrectly (perhaps not). But I suspect I've made enough points about my own perspectives on AP [that it doesn't present some kind of "either/or" situation; that it's quite unique: and it can potentially be quite beneficial for many people]. Perhaps it's time for me to let the discussion evolve in whatever direction it wants to go without what may be perceived as my somewhat repetitive comments.
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2014
  8. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    I hope PR members who have had the Atlas Profipax trt. will post positive and negative results on this thread.

    If I have counted right so far, 3 PR members have had zero or negative results (Global Pilot, Golden, Perchance Dreamer)

    4 have had positive results (Leela, Wayne, wool pippi and Sushi - but sushi had to keep going back for more trts)

    So far, these results do not reflect in any way the website of the practitioner I went to. I understand its a Sales website .... but still.

    It maybe again the ME CFS phenomenon of things just not working properly.

    The practitioner has not replied further to my gentle feedback other than to try and sell me a book - The Liberation.

    I am booked in with a chiropractor who is doing a digital x ray. and two adjustments. i hope he is good. i hope he helps.


    @leela

    I was hoping for a full cure for you because my perrin practitioner told me that whilst they were getting some way - the lady wasn't really getting better UNTIL ...

    she cut off all her extremely long dreds.

    Yes, and she was fully cured after this. Simple as.

    Amazing.

    So it is possible .

    But even a little bit of help goes a long way.


    Golden.
  9. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    The websites i have read do give the impression of a one off deal or possibly needing one or two chiro trts as well ...

    One website claims 90% tmj cure rate.

    I dont know where the sales/best or miraculous testimonies line should be in comparison to real life ground root results...

    I did feel 'swept up' by the website. I must say. In fact, I didn't see how it could possibly fail! lol

    I do think practitioners should be allowed to show piece their 'miracles' 'cures' and best work but i think my current feeling (which often changes) - is that they should take note of 'failures' to and ground that also inti their website more accurately???

    Castor oil is the bees knees. Love it.

    Golden
  10. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Leela, your new experiences with hunger and food tells me it's highly likely you've had pressure released from your vagus nerve, so that it is now functioning better. I ran across a rather fascinating article this morning on the vagus nerve, and thought you might find it interesting:

    Heart attacks, CFS, herpes virus infection and the vagus nerve
    Written by Gabriela Segura, MD

    Oh, BTW, you are keeping careful and meticulous notes, right? ;) If you don't mind my checking up on you? lol
    brenda likes this.
  11. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

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    Of course not, Wayne! o_O Best laid plans and all...But I will say your "before AP and after AP" point of reference really applies here.
    I have had the intention of updating my experience on this thread and will do when I can put my attention on gathering my thoughts.
    I'm really glad I did it--really really glad.

    Look forward to reading that article too, thank you!
    SickOfSickness and WoolPippi like this.
  12. WoolPippi

    WoolPippi Senior Member

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    I had my one-month-follow-up with the practioner this week.
    Things looked good. (you can skip a anything written in italics)

    Atlas is still straight.
    Legs are both the same length. (he tested this by having me lay faced down on a massage table with a hole in it for my nose. Then bend my feet towards my buttocks and keep light pressure on my feet. Then I had to turn my face sideways. Wait. Turn back to the ground. Wait. Turn to the other side. Wait.)

    My hips are still a bit uneven in height and also a bit not-facing-forward. These things are improving though, measurably.

    He thinks adjustments progress slowly from the atlas down the spine. First the first vertebra adjust to the new alignment, then the next. The hips are the last to line up.
    It's the strong muscles that keep them rotated for the time being. He suggested massaged for the hip area to coax the muscles in adapting to the new position.

    I had my period one week early, did I mention that here? He had heard of this before. It may have to do with expelling waste. In whole my life my period has only shifted one time when I was cleansing and fasting in a retreat and another time when there was a death in the family.

    (with ME my planning is all about my period. Week before and of the period I'm in bed and need to have food ready in the fridge. Week 1 & 2 I'm a winner and can go visit friends a couple of time. Also: my calendar is planned weeks or months in advance. So having this schedule change was a big nuisiance. It interfered with x-mas gatherings and also with last week, having to go to Amsterdam when it's now week 4 instead of week 3. I soldiered thru it but now I'm very, very tired. Luckily I've found a way to sleep through the night! but that's another story)

    One last thing that came up: dreaming more vividly. This may be an effect of Atlas Profilax.
    This means nothing to other people of course, this is so vague. But you who have done it may recognize it and notice a difference before and after.

    Effects still with me today are:
    - the need to take a walk every day (and I do! Couldn't before but now I just do. Heavy coat, earplugs and I walk about half a mile/almost a km), it lifts my spirits a few minutes into the walk, getting out of the house is still a drag and aids body processes;
    - a daily craving for seafood (fat fish and shrimp. Omega-oils? choline? I dunno, I just eat. The body wants what the body wants);
    - I keep my head up high, I sit and walk tall. Feels good
    - I have huge pain in my right shoulder. Can't lift arm. Not sure if this is related but muscles may be shortened and tugging at their connections to the bone. Rest & warmth.
    - my intestines still reside in my tummy. They do no longer flop over my belt.
    - I have to readjust cortisol supplements, my energy levels are still changing.
    - I switch more easily between SNS action and PSN rest now.
  13. WoolPippi

    WoolPippi Senior Member

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    I am so happy to read this! I was wondering...
    YAY!
    golden likes this.
  14. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    Well, just to update my Atlas Profilax treatment.

    I made a request to the practitioner for a full refund.

    I was told I should be patient with the treatment (it had been a year!)

    That I should pay for a full course of Chiropractic adjustments and if I got any health benefits - to attribute it to the Atlas Profilax!

    And to purchase a book called 'The Liberation'

    Most insulting comment was that I had to take full responsibility for my own healing journey.

    I replied back stating that she needs to take full responsibility for the content of her website and claims it makes - in order that I can make informed decisions.

    To be honest, I wouldn't have tried it if I had of had more feedback from real folk.

    I asked for references to pie in the sky percentage claims, she makes since she clearly was NOT interested in my feedback and testimonial.

    I suggested a clear disclaimer in a prominent place on her website that its a sales website and does not accurately display failures. In fact her own words were is doesn't help everyone and I asked her why she didn't tell me this before i paid £140.

    I was exceptionally gentle in my language and so of course - I have received no reply. I also reassured her I would not be revealing her name on forums.

    I am undecided what course of action, if any, I take next. I was wondering if the Atlas Profilax have a professional body to complain to.
  15. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    Ok. Got my reply since my last post!

    Here is a Summary of reply from AP practitioner regarding my questions about the failed treatment ...

    1) Osteopaths don't know what they are talking about which is why my regular Osteopath could discern no fifference after the adjustment.

    2) The treatment is uncomfortable or painful in the majority of patients which is proof the right amount of pressure has been applied.

    3) It is NOT possible for the AP to come out of place:

    "Because we do not manipulate. Water can not flow upward . Likewise the Atlas cant go where there is no place to go"

    4) Whether a person feels relief immediately or after some time or not at all can not speak for the correctness or uncorrectness of the treatment . Symptoms of disease and symptoms of healing can both feel the same.

    5) No, of course we don't refund. Will you get the ticket money back from the theatre if you did not enjoy the music?

    The practitioner does their work , never guarantees the results. In practice , most have good benefits but we cannot guarantee same for everyone.

    6) (when i asked about going to another AP practitioner free of charge Re: Waynes advice)

    No. This is not true. Its up to the practitioner . Some may do, others have them pay. (my note: for her to know this suggests to me she is aware this has happened before )

    We have to pay our rent as well, we love our work, but we are not a charity.

    7) (my question to her was on the importance of preperation eg. one hour spent relaxing the nervous system - making the technique painless with better results)

    She said: preperation and diagnoses is an integral part of the treatment . There is no need for it to take 1 hour. . There is no evidence that long preperation gives more results than just doing the treatment .

    8) On asking about her claim of a 90% cure rate for some ailments. Where the figure comes from and how is it calculated:

    "Of course you are included in this statistic . Unfortunately you fall within the 10%'

    She then posed a question to me :

    "Question : does everyone you help or advise get a 100% cure and results? If so, I will send everyone to you "


    Finally, she commented that the founder does not subscribe to the alien implant theory.

    statistic
  16. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hi Golden,

    I found your exchange with your AP practitioner interesting. Just briefly for now, thought I'd mention that it's not uncommon for the atlas to come out of place. If it didn't, why would the AP practitioners do "re-checks"? They want to determine if the atlas has held in place or not. Michael Hane says this happens probably less than 10% of the time, but it DOES happen.

    There's at least two instances I've heard of where the atlas would not stay in place, and would not hold. One I believe was a young boy who had had some kind of injury, and they speculated this was the reason for his inability to hold the atlas in place. The other instance was a woman who loved horseback riding, and that kind of jostling would throw her atlas back out. After having it put back in several times, she finally realized she would have to make a choice of either continuing to ride her horse, or give up on having her atlas permanently in place. She chose her horse. :)
  17. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    Lol + i would too :)

    Sushi, on this thread, i believe stated it kept on coming out and we wondered if EBS causes it. Thankyou for confirming that it can.

    I thought no. 3 response to be very odd.
    I must say I didn't understand it.

    This is from a very qualified, experienced AP so its a bit concerning.

    Golden
  18. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    Further Atlas update:

    I explained to the Atlas practitioner that the Atlas can and does come out of place. (my training is free of charge lol)

    I also explained why i believe a full refund is in order.

    I also asked again for references as to the statistics stated on her website.

    The reply back was short.

    I received no answer about her statistic sources.

    I can address any complaint about her to her Solicitor.

    If I wanted a further Atlas readjustment - she is now offering me one and included available dates.

    Because she did not appear to know or understand the Atlas comes out - i have no confidence in her.

    After having this 'exchange' i wouldn't really go back to her.

    I can't find a professional body to complain to - maybe Mr.Schulimpiner?


    My friend says that if its really true that the majority of people get good and great results from this - then it makes excellent business sense to fully refund those that don't . Particularly because the treatment time is so short.

    If however there is a significant proportion of people not being helped- then this explains a reluctance to refund.

    Golden.
  19. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hi Golden,

    Having become pretty good friends with Michael Hane, the AP practitioner who worked on my atlas, and probably at least a hundred other people in this area, I can say with a good deal of confidence that the majority of people do get good results. --- Personally, if I was an AP practitioner, I would refund money to anybody who requested it --- period. I see no value in being obstinate in this regard.

    The main AP "organization" in Switzerland is about the only one that I could think of that you could appeal to with your dispute. Unfortunately, I doubt very much you would get much support from them. Ever since the founder died, they apparently have put a new emphasis on increasing fees, thus increasing their own take, which comes from ongoing treatments done by AP practitioners.

    I'll just briefly mention that Michael currently has some "misgivings" about the AP organization. I don't feel I should share them on an open forum, but if you would like to know more, let me know, and we can PM with each other.

    Best, Wayne
    golden likes this.
  20. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    Thanks Wayne.

    Yes, personally I would refund too, without hesitation.

    I think some further thoughts are forming on this - so I just need a bit of time.



    I may very well have communicated all I needed to with her. Although I would be curious to see what her Solicitor says.

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