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Article: The Singh XMRV Study Strikes Out

Discussion in 'Phoenix Rising Articles' started by Phoenix Rising Team, May 5, 2011.

  1. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Im not saying viruses like ebv are not the cause but generally these viruses dont reactivate in healthy people, so these viruses reactivating are a sign of something else lowering our immunity which then allows these viruses to reactivate. There are cfsers out there that dont seem to have problems with herpes viruses, but i do think treating them helps as its helped me and i think helps free up the immune system to go after other bugs floating around in us. Also dr martin's theories is that these viruses can change and go 'stealth' and our immune system has problems finding and fighting them. Hopefully montoya's study on 1001 bugs in cfs finds some answers.

    cheers!!!
  2. mellster

    mellster Marco

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    Heap - I think it does not always have to be reactivation due to weakened immunity - on the contrary, first exposure (esp. later in life) can cause an overreaction and a dysfunction where not just the virus but the own body is targeted - just a hypothesis, but I don't think it's always lowered immunity since quite a few patients report they hardly ever come down with anything else anymore. cheers
  3. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    herpes viruses are definately implicated in cfs somewhere, but at the end of the day we need more research. The partial improvement some cfsers get from antivirals shows us these viruses are doing something to us. The immune system maybe over reactivating but is still under functioning, just like most of the NK function tests have shown, nk numbers can be fine but wouldnt work in an iron lung. My first 6 years of cfs i didnt get any other colds/flu's etc but the last few years i have picked up the winter flu every year that has sat me on my behind for a week or 2, not just cfs symptoms but the whole sore throat, runny nose flu type thing and it seems to hit me harder then others in my family. Also those awful 24 hour gastro bugs, the rest of the family get the 24hr bug, i seem to get the 72 hour bug. Maybe it depends on the different stage of our immune system working or not working.

    cheers!!!
  4. ixchelkali

    ixchelkali Senior Member

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    I keep seeing this mentioned in different places, but no one has offered a source for this information. Justin, can you cite the source for me, please?
  5. mellster

    mellster Marco

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    Agreed - will get NK and other numbers end of month. I find it interesting that it's often a chest/upper respiratory infection initiating a cycle. I wouldn't be surprised if just slightly decreased lung function and thus insufficient oxidation/recovery also plays a part in it (that's why keeping exercising if possible is of some importance). I think oxygen therapies need to be explored more.
  6. Mark

    Mark Acting CEO

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    Given that we know now from research in the last couple of years that unknown retroviruses can be transmitted in vaccines, and that XMRV itself was (allegedly) created accidentally in the lab, and that similar novel 'contaminants' are routinely created in this way, and that said 'contaminants' have spread around the world via unknown vectors, there are potentially powerful disincentives for big companies involved in any of these activities to prove that XMRV, or any other retrovirus, is implicated in ME/CFS. If it is implicated, then there's a good chance that one of them may be liable - and even if they don't know that's the case, they know it's possible and they know it's a risk, which could well be enough reason not to explore the possibility. Not saying that is the case, but it is quite plausible. Certainly it's the case that they will have a disincentive if the consensus is established that XMRV/CFS is all contamination, which plays anyway into existing beliefs that CFS is not a viral infection.
  7. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    google cmv and polio vaccines. monkey cmv has been found in polio vaccines from the 1970s and before as the vaccine was grown from african monkey tissue. This could have something to do with immunodefiencies as well as cmv is known to do this.
  8. insearchof

    insearchof Senior Member

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    The SV40 cases? They knew they caused cancers but ....the demand for polio vaccine was higher than supply....and on a risk analysis assessment, used them.
  9. insearchof

    insearchof Senior Member

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    Like going ''back to basics'' of demanding the fundamental type of research that requires precision (true replication studies) rather than near enough is good enough?

    Like demanding the kind of fundamental research that answers glaring discrepancies?

    Yes, getting back to the basics of science will, hopefully one day have a fruitful outcome.

    But to go back to the beginning and do more and add to the 3,000 pieces of research on flu like illnesses, viruses, other triggers, cytokines, NKC activity etc, that have also failed us, does not sound like an attractive option at this stage. I dont know that I really want to get back on that track just now, because 25 years marching down it has solved nothing.
  10. Angela Kennedy

    Angela Kennedy *****

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    I have to agree.
  11. ixchelkali

    ixchelkali Senior Member

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    I finally found the answer to my own question here, in the response statement issued by the WPI: http://www.wpinstitute.org/news/docs/WPIresponse_050911.pdf
  12. asleep

    asleep Senior Member

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    Really??? Anyway, I've made my case over and over and will continue to do so. The patterns are there.

    This is certainly a misrepresentation of my position. I am 100% for fair scientific treatment of XMRV. In that regard, anyone who seeks to short-circuit or derail the science through flawed arguments and politics is suspect. I am well aware of the games and politics being played and will not sit silently by while others try to silence a very viable insight into the health of my family, myself, and thousands/millions of others who cannot speak for themselves.

    Incidentally, this mischaracterization of people like me as being rabidly one-sided is itself part of the politics in play. In a context of power asymmetry, voices insisting on fair play and honest inquiry are predominantly at odds with the more powerful faction, thus making them seem one-sided. It is therefore easy to paint them as "radical" and "biased" and "rude", etc. Doing so is a well worn method of isolating and alienating voices of honest dissent and has contributed in large part to the demonization of the "other" forum.

    Firstly, I only find certain aspects of this forum (those I've detailed) to be "distasteful." There have also been good discussions and ideas here as well.

    As my original post in this thread should indicate, I think there is a serious and persistent problem with CAA/CDC sponsored misinformation being authoritatively spread on this forum. If it contributes to XMRV science being shut down prematurely, then it could actually affect me and those I care about.

    If I had a broken pipe in my basement, would you think it odd of me attempting to address it despite the distasteful dampness inherent in doing so?
  13. Angela Kennedy

    Angela Kennedy *****

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    Thank you asleep. Very well encapsulates the problems.
  14. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    Krizani, this and your other posts here put it very well. Bravo!

    Kurt, your comments here and many made by Cort are seriously at odds with the facts and I have been concerned for a long time that casual readers will be mislead by what you two say.
  15. kurt

    kurt Senior Member

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    I have no idea what facts you refer to, what are my comments are 'at odds with'? My analysis of the situation might be different from yours, but I don't see how expressing my view is misleading anyone. If anything my view, that the emerging scientific consensus that XMRV is not correlated with CFS is probably credible, seems to be in the minority here.

    I believe there are many good arguments against XMRV involvement in CFS, which is why I have suggested that there are other promising research areas right now.
  16. floydguy

    floydguy Senior Member

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    Care to expand on the other research areas?
  17. omegaman

    omegaman

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    Anyone can make a good arguement for or against just about anything. Evidence will lead the way to the truth not arguements.

    There are good arguments that global warming is not occuring yet the evidence does not bear this out.

    There were good arguments that the earth was flat and cold mothers caused autism and bigfoot exists.

    I fail to see how a good argument changes facts or how a good argument against XMRV being involved in CFS equals there beng other promising aread of research right now.

    Other areas of research being promising should be independent of arguments against XMRV.
  18. omegaman

    omegaman

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    I guess that depends how sick you are.

    For those with ME hanging on to life by a thread 7 months may not even come.
  19. Vitalic

    Vitalic Senior Member

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    Sorry but that shows a fundamental misunderstanding about how science operates. Science makes a hypothesis and sets out to disprove it. There is no emotional element to it, it's not as if the researchers are going in with the "wrong attitude" and this is somehow clouding the results, a good hypothesis will stand up to every attempt at disproof.

    After assessing the replication studies and given the almost unanimous consensus amongst scientists it shows a fantastic bias on the part of anyone declaring XMRV to still be the key player in this illness, the evidence doesn't support it simple as that. The idea that the original study had some exceptional quality that allowed it to make accurate detections and the following 23 or so studies missed that vital aspect is safely disposed of by Occam's Razor. The desperation people are showing in clinging to this hypothesis is unscientific, but I cannot blame people who have been ill for decades.

    The only positive from this is at least the condition now has more significance in the scientific community, but I think this will turn out to be a tragedy for the patient community in terms of shattered hopes.
  20. Ernie

    Ernie Senior Member

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    There have been no replication studies that's the problem. No one will be let down regardless of what happens. If XMRV were not to be the cause at least this illness is now getting more research. I believe especially after today and knowing I am xmrv + think good days are definately ahead.

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