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Article re: exercise causing calcium to leak from cells

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
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16,171
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/12/health/research/12musc.html?_r=1

The bolded parts are mine. I learned of this article from another group that I belong to and got permission to post it here. Am curious how this relates to ME/CFS especially in light of having a calcium channel auto-antibody. In the athletes, the cells are leaking calcium, and in someone like me, calcium is being blocked from entering the cell by an auto-antibody but maybe the mechanism (or consequence?) of shortness of breath, muscle weakness, pain, etc, is the same? Whether due to leaking or being blocked, the outcome is less calcium inside the cell if I am understanding this correctly? Would love to hear any thoughts on this and I think this med is experimental and not something available to try.

For decades, muscle fatigue had been largely ignored or misunderstood... In a report published Monday... Dr. Marks says the problem is calcium flow inside muscle cells. Ordinarily, ebbs and flows of calcium in cells control muscle contractions. But when muscles grow tired, the investigators report, tiny channels in them start leaking calcium, and that weakens contractions. At the same time, the leaked calcium stimulates an enzyme that eats into muscle fibers, contributing to the muscle exhaustion.

The new work in mice, Dr. Brooks said, “is exciting and provocative.” It is a finding that came unexpectedly from a very different line of research. Dr. Marks, a cardiologist, wanted to discover better ways to treat people with congestive heart failure... In his efforts to understand why the heart muscle weakened, Dr. Marks focused on the molecular events in the heart...

The intensified contractions, Dr. Marks and his colleagues discovered, occurred because the hormones caused calcium to be released into the heart muscle cells’ channels. But eventually the epinephrine and norepinephrine cannot stimulate the heart enough to meet the demands for blood. The brain responds by releasing more and more of those fight or flight hormones until it is releasing them all the time. At that point, the calcium channels in heart muscle are overstimulated and start to leak.

When they understood the mechanisms, the researchers developed a class of experimental drugs that block the leaks in calcium channels in the heart muscle. The drugs were originally created to block cells’ calcium channels, a way of lowering blood pressure. Dr. Marks and his colleagues altered the drugs to make them less toxic and to rid them of their ability to block calcium channels. They were left with drugs that stopped calcium leaks. The investigators called the drugs rycals... The investigators tested rycals in mice and found that they could prevent heart failure and arrhythmias in the animals...

ETA: Click link to read the full article
 
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zzz

Senior Member
Messages
675
Location
Oregon
In the athletes, the cells are leaking calcium, and in someone like me, calcium is being blocked from entering the cell by an auto-antibody but maybe the mechanism (or consequence?) of shortness of breath, muscle weakness, pain, etc, is the same?

It's not completely clear how many of your symptoms are being caused by the calcium channel auto-antibody, but certainly the effect of this antibody could be expected to be the same as the problem of leaking calcium. As you say:
Whether due to leaking or being blocked, the outcome is less calcium inside the cell if I am understanding this correctly?

Exactly.
Would love to hear any thoughts on this and I think this med is experimental and not something available to try.

Yes, the article states:
The odds are against this particular drug being approved, though, cautions Dr. W. Robb McClellan, a heart disease researcher at U.C.L.A.

And although the effect here of calcium leakage is the same as the effect of a calcium channel auto-antibody, the mechanism is different, so I would expect that a medication that addressed the former would not address the latter.
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
Thanks @zzz and everything you said makes sense. This is not part of the article but there is an experimental medication called 3,4 DAP that is supposed to help with calcium channel issues but I do not qualify for it (and no idea if it would help me or if I'd tolerate it anyway).
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
Ive had potassium leakage before

How did you know that you had potassium leakage from the cells? Sorry if dumb question. I frequently have low potassium on blood tests and take a prescription potassium supplement from my cardiologist but on the autoantibody tests for the potassium channels, I was completely normal (vs. the calcium channels I was not). Am really curious about this. Thanks in advance!
 

wastwater

Senior Member
Messages
1,270
Location
uk
It was picked up in a blood test at docs,im not sure where it came from,(cells?) it was a burst of potassium.I'm not sure if it happens a lot as I was only tested for minerals and stuff one time.I think calcium was normal in me.
Added:
The test was called serum bioprofile first time it was 6.4 but then it was 4.1 ,I noticed I had it tested twice,years apart.
 
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Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
I'm confused what you mean that the bloodtest picked up a "burst of potassium"? Do you mean that when tested, your potassium is chronically low unless you supplement it?
 

wastwater

Senior Member
Messages
1,270
Location
uk
It was high potassium the first time it was tested burst of potassium was just my odd wording,then it was normal and now it's slightly low.
I wonder if it maybe to do with the kidneys in my case as microscopic blood in urine comes and goes.
I wondered about genetic polycystic kidney
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
It was high potassium the first time it was tested burst of potassium was just my odd wording,then it was normal and now it's slightly low.
I wonder if it maybe to do with the kidneys in my case as microscopic blood in urine comes and goes.
I wondered about genetic polycystic kidney

I have no idea and leave this to the more sciency people to hopefully respond! My potassium runs low though without supplementation. Have you been tested for the auto-antibodies to calcium, potassium, etc?
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
I've not been tested for auto antibodies to calcium and potassium,that I know of.

Thanks and I was just curious. Am trying to find more people from PR who have had these tests and have found a few but the numbers are very small.
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
Thanks @zzz and everything you said makes sense. This is not part of the article but there is an experimental medication called 3,4 DAP that is supposed to help with calcium channel issues but I do not qualify for it (and no idea if it would help me or if I'd tolerate it anyway).

I am reviving this thread and quoting myself b/c I am wondering if anyone on PR has ever tried the medication, 3,4 DAP (which I bolded above). I've never heard it mentioned on PR but was just curious if anyone has tried it and if so, what were the effects? Thanks in advance.