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Article on antidepressants - Times UK

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by V99, Jun 19, 2010.

  1. V99

    V99 *****

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    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/health/mental-health/article2562303.ece
    Do antidepressants works?

    Some interesting parts.
  2. V99

    V99 *****

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    Just thought I would throw a question out there.

    Placebo response is low in CFS.
    The Placebo response is not dependent on whether you have low or high seratonin levels.

    Times article - Do antidepressants works?
    Doesn't this challenge Wessely's idea, that the low placebo response in CFS is due to patient expectations?

    The Placebo Response in the Treatment of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis HYONG JIN CHO, MD, MATTHEW HOTOPF, PHD, AND SIMON WESSELY, MD
    and what of the further papers that the FINE trail investigators want to do?

  3. Karin

    Karin

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    Thanks for this. While I think studies are good and necessary, in my opinion they do not necessarily indicate how a single individual will do. In my case, Zoloft was HUGE, GOLD, AWESOME, SAVED MY LIFE, and I'll be forever grateful. I tried everything else, diet, supplements, anti-oxidants, heck, even hyperbaric oxygen. Nothing comes even close to Zoloft's effect on me. What would have happened to me if Zoloft had not been released and marketed?
  4. Jenny

    Jenny Senior Member

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    Hi Karin

    I've heard good reports of Zoloft too. Could you say a bit more about how it helped you?

    Jenny
  5. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Zoloft had the exact opposite effect when i tried it 4-5 years back. Made me extremely weak, could hardly stand up for more than 5 minutes, gave me RLS, and drove me close to suicide.
  6. Jenny

    Jenny Senior Member

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    Sounds awful dannybex. What dose were you on? The people who report it helps them often take very low doses (eg 12.5 mg) and very slowly work up over a period of months.

    What is RLS?

    Jenny
  7. Karin

    Karin

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    I am not surprised to hear that people's experiences can vary so greatly with SSRIs. It seems to be very individual. I tried Lexapro, my doctor saying that patients were calling her to tell her how great it was, and it was horrible for me, even after the first pill, similar to what dannybex is saying about Zoloft.

    Zoloft on the other has quasi no negative side effects on me. And I felt an effect after the first pills already, though I understand this is unusual, usually it takes a few weeks. It did take a few weeks for the effect to buil up, but I saw a gigantic effect after the first pills already:

    Before: problems thinking, concentrating, brain fogged, bothered by everything, noises, talks, people. Feeling like my whole body is tight and compressed and all my nerves are raw (though no pain, just very unplesant all over). Problems sleeping, waking up with every sounds, adrenaline rushes, sleepy all day long, needing a lot of sleep. Mood swings, exploding and screaming for every little irritation, then very depressed, crying a lot (even outside, how shameful). Daily wish for not waking up the next day. Feeling like a failure, a bad mother.

    After, short-term: feeling like the windows in my head have opened and sunlight is shining in, fresh air coming in. Thoughts start flowing, concentration easier. Feeling like my whole body's outer 'shield' (for lack of better word) is growing back, things don't bother me anymore, my body feels warm and pleasant, relaxed, my hands feel warm. My mood is smoothened and I don't explode anymore and don't cry anymore. I don't feel happy but I don't feel horrible. Sleep is more refreshing and I don't need as much.

    After, long-term: no more feelings of being a failure or wanting to die. Less fatigue.
  8. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Good point Jenny...starting with low doses can sometimes help. And like Karin says, we all have different reactions. It's very interesting that her positive reactions were/are almost the EXACT opposite of what I had. In addition to the weakness, etc., I noted above, it made my brain fog much, much worse, and made me a lot colder, instead of warmer. We're all different. :eek:

    My problem in general with SSRI's is (like most drugs) that they don't address the cause of the depression. They kind of artificially correct imbalances, but don't actually increase serotonin or other neurotransmitter levels for example...they just recycle what levels you might have -- they don't address why the levels are depleted or what's causing the depletion or imbalance -- at least that's my understanding. :Retro smile:

    But depression and other mood issues may have many different causes: B-12 deficiency, folic acid deficiency, and especially vitamin D deficiency. In fact vitamin D def may play a role in a lot of the immune problems we have as well as depression, muscle weakness, joint problems, etc.. Vitamin D has been found to be more effective than light therapy for seasonal depression. There are a ton of studies at http://www.vitamindcouncil.org -- plus a lot of reports/stories via google. Many, many people are finding they're "d" levels are shockingly low. The last time mine was checked it was 34 (or something like that), which is barely in the 'normal' range, and I haven't taken much 'd' since then, so it's probably lower now. Experts suggest it should be closer to 50-75. I gotta get my d levels retested...

    The other thing that works for some people is SAM-e -- (and again, there is lots of info on the web) -- it also helps not only mood, but liver, joint, circulation, etc., because it supplies an amino acid (methionine) along with ATP (which is found to be low in CFS), and helps a lot, for me, with both mood and joint issues. But then again, some people cannot tolerate it -- that's what's so frustrating about this disease (and others too) -- but you can find discussions on SAM-e and vitamin d by doing a search on the forums.

    Just my two cents. I'm not a doctor at all, and not in good shape either, so take these suggestions with a huge grain of salt.

    d.

    p.s. RLS = restless leg syndrome. Ironically, SAM-e helps a lot with that too, as does vitamin e. And there's a connection with low iron and RLS...so it's a good idea to have one's ferritin levels checked.
  9. Karin

    Karin

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    Yes, I forgot: I am on the lowest dose of Zoloft, 50 mg. And I started with only half a pill, 25 mg (half the minimum dose), then I increased after a few months when I had a feeling I needed more.
  10. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    With any of the anti-depressants, even the tricyclics. There affects are as unigue as the person taking them. What works for one will be hell for the other and visa versa, but I do think they are a life saver for a lot of people. As well are pure hell as in Dannybex case. This is where the typical doctor instructions are "If this one doesn't work we will try another one", but it is the way they should be done. they tried them on me several years ago and I either got nothing or a zombie like effect. Nothing drastic happened with any of them, but tried about 6 or 7 and nothing came from them that made me want to keep taking them. I was on 80 mg / day of Prozac and it had zero effect. Doctor even asked if I was having any sexual side effects and the truth was nothing had changed cause I was good to go!!!
    Just my suggestion is to be patient and go into it knowing you might have to change several times and some experiences might not be good, but the next one could be the real deal or not.
  11. Jenny

    Jenny Senior Member

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    London
    My problem in general with SSRI's is (like most drugs) that they don't address the cause of the depression. They kind of artificially correct imbalances, but don't actually increase serotonin or other neurotransmitter levels for example...they just recycle what levels you might have -- they don't address why the levels are depleted or what's causing the depletion or imbalance -- at least that's my understanding. :Retro smile:

    But depression and other mood issues may have many different causes: B-12 deficiency, folic acid deficiency, and especially vitamin D deficiency. In fact vitamin D def may play a role in a lot of the immune problems we have as well as depression, muscle weakness, joint problems, etc.. Vitamin D has been found to be more effective than light therapy for seasonal depression. There are a ton of studies at http://www.vitamindcouncil.org -- plus a lot of reports/stories via google. Many, many people are finding they're "d" levels are shockingly low. The last time mine was checked it was 34 (or something like that), which is barely in the 'normal' range, and I haven't taken much 'd' since then, so it's probably lower now. Experts suggest it should be closer to 50-75. I gotta get my d levels retested...

    The other thing that works for some people is SAM-e -- (and again, there is lots of info on the web) -- it also helps not only mood, but liver, joint, circulation, etc., because it supplies an amino acid (methionine) along with ATP (which is found to be low in CFS), and helps a lot, for me, with both mood and joint issues. But then again, some people cannot tolerate it -- that's what's so frustrating about this disease (and others too) -- but you can find discussions on SAM-e and vitamin d by doing a search on the forums.

    Just my two cents. I'm not a doctor at all, and not in good shape either, so take these suggestions with a huge grain of salt.

    d.

    p.s. RLS = restless leg syndrome. Ironically, SAM-e helps a lot with that too, as does vitamin e. And there's a connection with low iron and RLS...so it's a good idea to have one's ferritin levels checked.[/QUOTE]

    .................................................................................................................................................

    All very good points, dannybex. I agree that taking anti-depressants won't address the cause, but it's worth considering that increasing serotonin may have knock on effects that help systemically. And a recent test I had suggested that I was converting tryptophan to a toxic substance and this meant I had less to convert to serotonin, so I've just started 5-HTP.

    I thought SAM-e was helping when I took it a year or so ago, but a recent course didn't do anything, and I don't think Vit D3 does much for me either as I've been taking 2,500 mg a day for over 6 months and 1,000 for months before that. Never been able to get my D levels tested.

    Jenny
  12. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    i tend to get bad reactions from SSRI drugs even with extremely low doses.. i've tried Citalopram (Celexa).. makes me just sleep and non functional, couldnt even make myself a cup of tea on it) and Lovan (Fluoxetine.. prozac) had a different bad reaction (headaches? from it).

    i like benzodiazepines eg Xanax (Alprazolam), i use only a quarter of the smallest dose and find that works, ive heard that isnt just used for anxiety in some patients but also as an antidepressant at times and Rivatril / Klonopin (Clonazepam) i found great (till i had a sudden suidial incident and OD on it).

    i cant use sedating drugs thou for emotional liability or for sleep. I tried Seroquel (Quetiapine) and Olanzapine (zyprexa) and even at half of the very smallest dose, they have long lasting sleep affects making me loose the next day too. If i cut them back to where they dont go and knock me out for a very long time, they dont then work at all.

    A stupid doctor who didnt believe in CFS once put me on Lamotrigine, very bad reaction there too (got hives rash) and went almost psychotic when put on Lamotrigine and Citalopram, i had a near psychotic eposide (strong urges to rip all my partners skin off back).

    i've read that many of us with CFS cant tolerate SSRI drugs.

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