1. Patients launch a $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
The Mighty Egg: New Life Springs Forth Despite ME/CFS
Jody Smith finds that even with ME/CFS, new life as symbolized by the mighty egg, can still spring forth ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Article: Of Mice and Men: The X-MLV's and XMRV

Discussion in 'Phoenix Rising Articles' started by Phoenix Rising Team, Dec 7, 2010.

  1. Phoenix Rising Team

    Phoenix Rising Team

    Messages:
    649
    Likes:
    993
  2. illsince1977

    illsince1977 A shadow of my former self

    Messages:
    356
    Likes:
    21
    Did you mean "house mice in the US typically carry few carry XMLVs " ? Or am I just too tired to be trying to comprehend this information packed article tonight? Unbelievably great job as usual.
    I don't know how you do it, Cort!!! :thumbsup:
  3. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

    Messages:
    7,025
    Likes:
    428
    Raleigh, NC
    Whoops.....:oops::oops::oops: That was a little miss there :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Thanks!
  4. usedtobeperkytina

    usedtobeperkytina Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,384
    Likes:
    185
    Clay, Alabama
    There's that word, "deleterious".

    I tried to read the study. Clearly I don't have the scientific perception Cort has. But, I did learn a new word. deleterious- injurious to health

    Cort, two of us were looking at this study at the same time. Tell me, did you understand the part about tetherin?

    Tina
  5. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

    Messages:
    7,025
    Likes:
    428
    Raleigh, NC
    Skipped right over the tetherin part :cool:
  6. pictureofhealth

    pictureofhealth XMRV - L'Agent du Jour

    Messages:
    534
    Likes:
    1
    Europe
    Great summary Cort, thank you.

    Re Transmission - I know this has been discussed before and some don't like the idea, but surely if some species of lab mouse carry retroviruses which can be transmitted a) as a whole to other species, or b) in part of a virus which then has the potential to marry up with endogenous retrovirus sequences already inside a human cell, then we really DO have to look at how we use tissue from lab mice in relation to human vaccine preparation and other pharmaceuticals esp I/V.

    I don't see that there can be any doubt about this.
  7. Carryon

    Carryon

    Messages:
    47
    Likes:
    1
    Littleton, CO
    Nice job Cort... will post and publish in e-news
  8. usedtobeperkytina

    usedtobeperkytina Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,384
    Likes:
    185
    Clay, Alabama
    Well, you seemed to get a lot more out of this than I did.

    I got the overall points from it. But the part about the tetherin confused me. I would read the sentence and think it is saying one thing and then I would read it again and think it is saying the opposite.

    It used the term "antagonize the tetherin" Does that mean it causes a tetherin reaction or does it mean it prevents the tetherin reaction?

    Tina
  9. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

    Messages:
    7,025
    Likes:
    428
    Raleigh, NC
    Mizakawa recently wrote a paper that examined this problem. He noted that many vaccines are produced using cell lines from cats, mice, pigs and chickens, all of which carry ERV's. Vaccine producers used to just worry whether the cell lines they used contain live viruses...he is arguing that they should worry more about whether those cell lines contain ERV's that can produce live viruses or proteins from them.

    That sounds like a real can of worms. :D
  10. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

    Messages:
    7,025
    Likes:
    428
    Raleigh, NC
    I think this is good news. Tetherin is a factor that cells produce that appears to stop viral particles from being released thereby rendering them inoperative, if I got that right. HIV has the ability to block tetherin activity but XMRV, a much simpler virus, is unable to do that ('antagonize' tetherin action is a weird way of putting it). She notes that studies have shown that Tetherin can block XMRV activity; at least two antivral cellular factors, then, tetherin and the APOBEC3 G appear to be able to inhibit XMRV in humans.

    This could be a little problematic, though. If XMRV is causing damage in CFS then it has to able evade the major antiviral factors... I don't know how many of them there are or where they are but what we really might want to see is XMRV being immune to a big antiviral factor. We know that the APOBEC 3 enzyme knocks XMRV in the PBMC's tested thus far in the blood - on it's butt. How is a virus that is knocked on its butt going to cause CFS? Either XMRV is flourishing elsewhere in the body in cells that do not have that enzyme or it's doing it's damage without replicating...which I guess is possible ???

    HTLV also exists in low numbers and cause damage - so that does happen but it does it by turning cancerous and the research does not yet suggest that XMRV is a cancer causing agent (and of course CFS is not cancer). Still there's alot to learn. Could XMRV be altering the function of immune cells simply by being present in them? I think that's one possibility...
  11. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member

    Messages:
    824
    Likes:
    749
    This term is a scientific relic of a time when scientists were expected to know Latin and Greek. Promoting a reaction makes something an agonist, while hindering it makes it an antagonist. As my spell checker reminds me, you don't see both words used this way in common speech.

    On the subject of cancer, I would go beyond the cautious position Cort gets from quoting scientists as a reporter. There is enough data on association with a number of cancers, including rare forms like mantle cell lymphomas, to "suggest" a causative role. This is far less than proof, but it is quite enough to provoke the traditional "further study".
  12. pictureofhealth

    pictureofhealth XMRV - L'Agent du Jour

    Messages:
    534
    Likes:
    1
    Europe

    It is isn't it?! How about the unintentional spread of a Biosafety Level 2 Recombinant Retrovirus (a synthetic virus) engineered in the 1980's with similarities to XMRV? Paper published in Germany in Sept 2009.

    Read on!!

    http://forums.aboutmecfs.org/showth...of-a-Biosafety-Level-2-Recombinant-Retrovirus
  13. George

    George waitin' fer rabbits

    Messages:
    846
    Likes:
    44
    South Texas
    Wonderfully written Cort! Four paws up!
  14. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

    Messages:
    7,025
    Likes:
    428
    Raleigh, NC
    The ultimate compliment...Woof! Woof!

    (we could really use a couple of dog smiley's......hmmm)

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page