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Artesunate - Cheney dosage and benefits

Discussion in 'Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators' started by dasiymay, Oct 8, 2009.

  1. RivkaRivka

    RivkaRivka Senior Member

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    hi all,

    thanks for this thread. i'm about to buy artesunate. can anyone tell me where to get it in the US, or do we have to order from china?

    (if anyone has leftovers they don't use and want to send my way, let me know!)
  2. silicon

    silicon Senior Member

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    Hi RivkaRivka,
    I have seen a Cheney patient mention (online) that artesunate can be purchased from http://www.hepalin.com/hepasunate50.htm from California. Apparently, Cheney now thinks that the Hong Kong source (http://www.penjing.com/~axu/trihealth2000/) is much better and more potent than the California source. Although if one has trouble tolerating artesunate, the California source may be preferable. FYI, apparently iron, found in red meat and supplements (especially multi vitamins), can make Artesunate toxic, so it is preferable to minimize iron intake.

    silicon
  3. pine108kell

    pine108kell Senior Member

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    Eleven pages of posts about this substance now and still not a single, clear detailed description of anyone showing any significant improvement.
  4. spacee

    spacee

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    Ok, I will tell my tale. I tried a capsule of hepasunate and felt like a poisoned bug lying on its back...in my bed. YUK. My experience with Target Transfer Factors has taught me how to
    open a capsule and take a much smaller portion. But I didn't really get started on that. Please pardon the digression. I have mycos. I know this because of my reaction on the Marshall
    Protocol for 10 months (had to stop because of family matters). And the target Transfer Factors to mycos gave a much more energy. The company said that the TF's would last for 5 years
    in my freezer. I do not believe this is true. After 2 years they were no longer working....for whatever reason.

    Dr. Nicholson on Prohealth was answering questions. Mine was how to address mycos. NTFactor (add a .com to find). Yuk, made me feel almost the same as hepasunate. So started at 1/2
    tablet took several months to work up to a full tablet but I have. Do I feel any different, not really. Need to have my Vit D's checked. An out of range 1, 25 D Hidroxy (high) indicates mycos
    or stealth. Need to see if my out of range is better.

    Ok, finally start back the Hepasunate. Doesn't make me feel ill. Start at about 1/3 capsule. Just open and put on tongue. Put a sticky on my puter which 3 nights of the week I take it.
    Now am up to a full capsule in about a month's time. Seem to wake at a more normal time 8-8:30. Was sleeping til late morning. And on bad days even 1pm. Feel a bit more energetic.
    I exercise at Curves one-twp days a week being careful to keep my heart rate low as possibly which means mainly using the machines. Do yoga one morning a week and a boby bar class
    one evening a week. Do grocery shopping and cook very simple meals. Getting out of the house more (shopping for clothes....retain therapy), getting a root canal. Going to the movies
    once a week. Which I was not doing.

    Sum it up. Pleased so far. Let me tell you in another month what improvement...that will tell the tale. It was a big thing to be able to tolerate NTFactor and Hepasunate!! Now will see
    what happens.
  5. insearchof

    insearchof Senior Member

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    A very worthwhile thread.

    A contribution I can make.

    I know of a KDM patient introduced to Artesunate. Just started his protocol and so, began with this and delayed introducing other substances.

    Dose was 1 x 50mg per day for 1 month to start. Liver function and oxidative stress levels all done before commencing.

    This person reported following: severe gut pain -stabbing, wind like pain/spasm, bloating, ''period like pain'' bladder pressure and feeling like organs were being squashed up under his ribs. Seemed to occur, couple times a week over duration of the first month. Some of these symptoms were more common than others and were consistent and new to him. As the month progressed, he noticed that when these symptoms occured they would do so within hours of taking artesunate and the resulting pains would wipe them out.

    He stopped taking it for a period of 7-10 days with none of these symptoms. Returned to alternate days 3-4 over next week with a return of symptoms together with diahorea.

    He then made some enquiries with a person who was a pharmacist with a PH D on gut flora. The PH D guy said that there is little information on side effects of artesunate, but what was available suggested it was safe to take at that dose. He was told that if he took it with the antibotic eurythromyicin it would make artesunate much more effective/potent because of the synergistic relationship between the two. He was also advised that artesunate should not be taken with anti fungal medicines. (Dont know why). When he spoke of his gut problems - he was then told that artesunate acts in the gut - the same way an antibotic does. Therefore he was not too suprised at this guys symptoms.

    Therefore Chris et al theory about it wipping out good bacteria in the gut might be correct.

    Alternatively, this guy also had a lot of bad gut bacterial issues. If artesunate acts up on parasites - perhaps it also acts up on bad gut bugs - killing them off?

    Hard to know if it is wipping out good bacteria leaving more bad bacteria to upset the apple cart OR if it is killing off the bad guys in the gut....because I have also heard that the side effects from antibiotics - is regarded by some doctors - as evidence that the antibiotic is really working and killing off the bad guys. (logically that sort of reaction to an antibiotic might amount to a die off effect and then again, it might not. Hard to know.)

    But for this reason alone, I think it is a good idea if your taking artesunate that you also consult a knowledgable gut doctor.
  6. redo

    redo Senior Member

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    I have begun on "Artemesia" (that's what it says on the box), by NurtiCology (supposed to be a good brand) on the 8th of March. The content of the tablets are "Sweet wordwood (Leaves) Extract 30:1, 500mg".

    I have got better (very noticeably) since Thursday last week (the 24th of March), and I am still getting better.

    I am not 100% sure it's the Artemesia causing this. But if it is, then I think it's really two ways it may work.

    One:
    A PhD from Maryland (F. Dickerson) has begun trying out Artemisinin against a retrovirus. I am not sure how it works (or might work), or why it might work. But that's what she's doing, so I guess there is some rationale in it: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/show...v-but-herv-k-!&p=163194&viewfull=1#post163194

    Two:
    It might be that it has a good effect on harmful gut microbes (as discussed here, the microbes, not the Artemisinin). I see on the box that Artemisinin is supposed to help with that. This quote can be found on boxes from all producers, but I can't find a source for it " Research has shown artemisinin to be particularly beneficial in balancing the microbiology of the GI tract."

    For those unfamiliar with Artemisinin; it's not just a herb used in alternative medicine. Just like we use opiates (which comes from a plant) for pain, or penicillin (many of which come from fungi) for infections, we use Artemisinin for malaria. Well, it's only in the third world, but it's a recommended drug from the WHO (UN's World Health Organization) against malaria. So it's a drug which works. Only we don't know if it works against either retroviruses or problems with the gut.
  7. spacee

    spacee

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    My have times changed. No longer take hepasunate or NT Factor. Decided to get back on the Targeted Transfer Factors. And now I am trying LDN.
    I think the hepasunate changed my colon in a way that is not normal (constipation) and I may never be normal again. I am now taking magnesium
    1250 a day in divided doses to help with the C. How do I feel. Not good. A couple of days a week I leave the house usually with my husband driving.
    I am 61 and have been sick 25 years. That's a long time. I don't know if I will get better. Still able to exercise a bit, fix very easy meal and do laundry.
    Clean house...hahahaha. Nope.
  8. mellster

    mellster Marco

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    I take Artemisia occasionally as well (carefully) - and noticed - like with other "anti-parasite" capsules containing sweet wormwood - usually an improvement in the gut.
  9. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    Read this thread. completely f****** confused now.
  10. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    I started Artesunate 20 mg x 4 as instructed by my doctor from the Breakspear nearly 2 weeks ago and have had no problems at all with it, in fact I have been doing very well. However I am not sure if this is to do with stopping the antibiotic regime I had been on for nearly 4 months of Doxy, Azithromycin Monday, Wednesday and Friday two weeks ago because of severe gut issues.

    Gradually over the past week especially I have felt a lot better, less migraines which are not so painful and much better walks with my dog. No gut issues at all with the Artesunate. I am also taking one No 1 Probiotic from Klaire Labs and one No 4 Probiotic also from Klaire Labs again instructed by the Breakspear. I think I have to take it for one month but I am not certain and will have to check because usually I am far worse in the winter when I pick up throat viruses all the time which make me feel very ill.
  11. MDL

    MDL

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  12. baccarat

    baccarat Senior Member

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    Well, I guess it needs to be toxic in order to be effective, as antivirals and antibiotics are.
  13. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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    I am taking Artemisinin 100mg 3X a day for about a week now. I decided to take Artemisinin instead of Artesunate because I think it has less toxicity issues. Artesunate is man made and made to be water soluble. This is really not an issue if you take Artemisinin with oils. Artesunate is about 2X the dose of Artemisinin in terms of conversion.

    Within about a week I could go off the Valcyte. I still feel normal and do not feel any EBV relapse. I will confirm this with lab tests later in the month. But more importantly Artemisinin make me feel in a way that the Valcyte could not. I feel very much more globally 'cured' instead of when I was taking the Valcyte which did not seem to be treating everything. This is a very big deal for me for someone who was about to switch to Methotrexate out of desperation.

    I take some liver supplements daily too in case of liver toxicity so I will just have to see how that goes. In terms of side effects do not confuse them with the Jarisch-Herx that Artemisin/nate can produce too. If you can work through those then keep staying on it long term.

    I am using it and hi-dose Vitamin D for it autoimmune modulating properties.
  14. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Good to hear, glad your feeling better, i hope it continues for you.

    cheers!!
  15. Nabo

    Nabo

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    hello everyone

    I have been using a couple of weeks artesunate.
    I have built up very slowly because I am very sensitive to certain medications medication and I really can not.
    I had to take 1 tablet everyday of 50. but i was still on a half tablet.

    I feel the last few weeks, more dizzy but since this weekend it gotten so bad that I'm almost fainted 2 times. I am very dizzy and lightheaded and everything is running.
    I find this very scary, I've never seen so much!

    I am also a couple of weeks ago, around the same time as the artesunate started to gc maf
    I started with 25 nanograms but soon felt that too much was thus reduced to 10 nanograms.
    Last year I have a used gc maf for 6 motnhs and then I had never suffered from dizziness. I had many other complaints because I shot too high a dose. namely 100 nanograms so eventually I had to stop because I could no longer side.

    Well that's a long story.
    my question really, this extreme dizziness and near fainting is it because of the gc maf or artesunate??
    or something totaly different???????????

    I am very worried, please help.
  16. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    Nabo my experience is always start just 1 supplement at once otherwise you will never know what is causing which symptoms, I would stop the Artesunate and see if the worst symptoms go, if not stop both for a week, and then start off slowly one at a time, just what I would do anyway FWIW.
  17. Hep Advocate

    Hep Advocate

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    I have been sick and searching for a cure for 15 years now. I have tried many different protocols including antibiotics, antivirals, Marshall, and Sarah Myhill. In 2010 I visited Dr. Lerner in Michigan and received a clinical diagnosis of HV6, CMV and EBV. I declined the Valcyte treatment due to both costs and risks associated with the drug and tried the antiviral Famciclovir instead. I found it improved me but did not make me totally better (still had post exertional exhaustion when I tested exercise - my litmus test). After 6 months or so, I began to get sore kidneys and decided to get off of it. I then found Hepasunate and have been on it for about 6 months now. I have never felt better - I just got back from a jog after getting only 5 hours sleep and having returned from a trip to Asia just yesterday! I am taking a dosage that I found referenced by Sarah Myhill @ 2mg per kg of weight. I use Cheney's frequency of every other day with a wormwood tincture swish and spit in the days in between. I had tried Cheney's dosage but it was not enough. Happy to answer any questions you might have. I have read these posts and tried to figure out what was working and not and have been reluctant to post until I felt I had something solid to report. Hope this helps. Cheers.
  18. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Hep advocate,

    Thats good to hear your improvement. I have gone the opposite of u, i have artesunate in the cupboard i havent used but have gone the av way. famvir got me from a 3 to a 6 out of 10 and i will continue to use it at a low dose. now on valcyte at a low dose of 450mg a day with famvir for last 8 weeks, so far so good, now functioning at an 8 out of 10, i will continue this for another 8 months. I to have been exercising some as well. I might look into artesunate when i finish the valcyte to help maintain my improvements.

    does it have specific effects to the herpes viruses like cmv/hhv6 ?
    And is it a treatment that u will stay on or is it a set course like 12 months??
    Correct me if im wrong, but does artesunate also have potential liver issues as well??

    Thats a good response that u can go jogging, i hope u can keep it up.
    thanks for sharing your experience,
    cheers!!!
  19. citybug

    citybug Senior Member

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    I am taking famvir, but have sore kidneys. Thought I felt a little better after feeling worse, still have some very irritable days, really not sure any better. I would like to take artesunate. When I tried !/2 a capsule I felt pain all over, like flayed alive on a few tries. So I think it does something. Any advice on how to stand it? Are people swallowing the artesunate or swishing like the wormwood? Thanks for help.
  20. Hep Advocate

    Hep Advocate

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    I seem to have no trouble with a higher dosage of artesunate so I can't offer any help there.You might try to start with just swishing and spitting a wormwood tincture. I ordered some from Gaiagarden.com. (Either way, you might feel worse before you start feeling better but if you are reacting strongly it could be a good sign that it is working).
    I have been sick and searching for a cure for 15 years now. I have tried many different protocols including antibiotics, antivirals, Marshall, and Sarah Myhill. In 2010 I visited Dr. Lerner in Michigan and received a clinical diagnosis of HV6, CMV and EBV. I declined the Valcyte treatment due to both costs and risks associated with the drug and tried the antiviral Famciclovir instead. I found it improved me but did not make me totally better (still had post exertional exhaustion when I tested exercise - my litmus test). After 6 months or so, I began to get sore kidneys and decided to get off of it. I then found Hepasunate and have been on it for about 6 months now. I have never felt better - I just got back from a jog after getting only 5 hours sleep and having returned from a trip to Asia just yesterday! I am taking a dosage that I found referenced by Sarah Myhill @ 2mg per kg of weight (for me that is 200 mg every other day). I use Cheney's frequency of every other day with a wormwood tincture swish and spit in the days in between. I had tried Cheney's dosage of 50 mg every other day prior to the higher dosage because it was not enough. Happy to answer any questions you might have. I have read these posts and also felt frustrated at the lack of testimonials as I tried to figure out what was working and not and have been reluctant to post until I felt I had something solid to report but I feel that I have that now. Hope this helps.

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