The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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"Are You Saying She's Mentally Ill Then?" Explaining Medically Unexplained Seizures in Clinical Enco

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by Dolphin, Dec 5, 2015.

  1. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    Free full text: http://www.qualitative-research.net/index.php/fqs/article/view/2418/3906

    Perhaps of interest to somebody


     
  2. Jeckylberry

    Jeckylberry Senior Member

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    Thanks, @Dolphin! This is a very interesting paper and one that challenges the current hackneyed method of trying to explain a condition that is clearly not properly understood to patients who can see right through it. I like how they record what is actually said and how it sounds. The docs seem to have little faith in the lines either. I also see how they are infused with 'you have to believe in it in order for it to work' fairytale. How can anyone seriously wondering how to understand this illness possibly start from that sort of premise. It's riddled with flaws. You can't agree to put yourself or a loved one or a patient through something like a psychoanalytical course with something that flimsy to motivate you!

    Saying, 'we're not sure what is doing this' is a far better starting point.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2015
  3. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    The quotes from neurologists are unbelievably stupid.
     
  4. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    So the neurologists involved were either morons or liars. Psychogenic hypotheses are still very much hypothetical, frequently disproven, and insulting to anyone with a modicum of rationality.

    Though no doubt some would conclude that the neurologists simply need more acting classes and/or some better debate skills, to compensate for the complete lack of scientific support. Then maybe they can appropriately persuade the patients to accept their outrageous crap.
     
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  5. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    Psychogenic medicine is a cult. The goal is always to convert patients to the belief in psychogenic illness, with the promise that they will regain good health.

    Cults often claim claim special insight into invisible and unmeasurable powers that influence our lives. In psychogenic medicine this is the power of the mind.

    Cults target people in desperate situations because they are more vulnerable: in psychogenic medicine these are patients suffering from chronic unexplained health problems.

    Cults are impervious to reason and criticism. In psychogenic medicine, they're unwilling to debate whether psychogenic illness even exists. When therapies don't work, patients are blamed for not doing it right.

    Cults like to have total control over their members. In psychogenic medicine, patients are told that everything they feel and believe is wrong and that they must do everything they're told. Mental and emotional manipulation is used. Patients that disagree are sometimes imprisoned by force (theHansen or Pelletier to name two examples).
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2015
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  6. Cheshire

    Cheshire Senior Member

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    The authors point the supposedly false mind-body dichotomy that doctors reject while it's the basis of their explanations.

    They can add the brain to the equation, the conclusion is always the same: MUS are caused by bad emotional coping. (and not matter that this has never been scientifically proven...)
     
  7. Jeckylberry

    Jeckylberry Senior Member

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    The importance of this paper is that it catches the exact words and shows just how crappy the reasoning is. I've heard similar every time I go to hospital or went to my neuro 'team' but unfortunately with much more zeal - just like 'cult' proselytisers @A.B. mentions. But to average doctors this pseudo medicine makes no real sense. They anticipate it being rejected before they open their mouths because they have no faith in it and it shows.
     
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  8. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    of all the doctors i saw early on in my illness, neurologists were the least helpful
     
  9. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Hibernating

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    If someone claims a disorder has both biological and psychological aspects, but the doctor only uses psychological explanations and pushes psychological treatments, it is no wonder patients are going to suspect their doctor believes in mind-body dualism.

    Also, their logic seems to be a non-sequitur:
    If not an epileptic seizure, therefore psychogenic.

    Quite a logical leap there.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2015
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  10. Jeckylberry

    Jeckylberry Senior Member

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    In my experience of being on the receiving end of this 'cult', I don't think it's very helpful for neurologists to head into this fusion of mind and body. They are not trained in eastern or new age philosophy and most of their patients aren't either. Western medicine is fundamentally dualist! therefore if someone is behaving atypically for whatever reason it remains the neuro's job to find something that can be correlated to a known disease. If they can't find anything then they should say so. They shouldn't meddle with a persons psyche in an attempt to find potted answers. Any psycosomatic or psychogenic conclusion just makes the switch from body to the area of the mind, or flip flops back and forth between each one which is uncomfortable for all but the true converts (who demand blind faith). I would rather have fought to get a diagnosis from a neurologist that shrugged me off than where I am now, fighting to get rid of a psychogenic label.
     
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  11. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

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    Maybe they need some personal training from Sir Simon on how to be a con man (or woman). He'll need to do some moonlighting soon in order to pay the lawyers.
     
  12. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

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    But that doesn't stop them from abusing patients by promoting this rubbish, which says much about their personal integrity and ethics.
     
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  13. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

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    All the specialists I have seen have been equally skilled at passing the buck. Makes me wonder if there is a special medical school course on how to do that.
     
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