1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Hyperparathyroidism: An Often Overlooked Differential Diagnosis to ME/CFS
Andrew Gladman puts hyperparathyroidism under the microscope, exploring what the disease is, how it can mimic ME/CFS in presentation and how it is treated.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Are vaccines the cause of ME/CFS?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Seewell, Feb 8, 2013.

  1. Seewell

    Seewell Senior Member

    Messages:
    234
    Likes:
    142
    Like most of us here i was vaccinated as a child in school (or wherever).
    What do you think is there a link between this illness and vaccines.
    Has a virus been living with use for many years then one day wakes up.
    All questions not statements - its something ive thought about for a while.
    I also recently watched a video lecture that concerned me a lot.
    M:alien:E ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !
    Dmitri likes this.
  2. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,282
    Likes:
    6,236
    USA
    My best guess is that vaccines don't give us ME/CFS. I had NO vaccines until I was in my late 20's. Daughter had all her vaccines as a kid. Both of us got ME/CFS.

    That said, I think it's quite possible that if you have ME/CFS, injecting a live virus (even if it's attenuated) into your system is likely to cause problems. So I'm thinking that the vaccine is not the root cause of ME/CFS, but it may cause a person's first bad crash, which makes it look like the start of the illness.

    Case in point: My daughter had the same flu-like illness I had that started my ME/CFS (as far as I can tell). She mostly recovered with only occasional, fairly mild flares, UNTIL 5 years later when she got a chickenpox booster (HHV-3) to go to college. That appears to have reactivated her EBV (HHV-4) and HHV-6. She was continually ill with ME/CFS after that until she was treated with Valcyte and Valtrex. She currently has no outstanding infections (that we know of), but still has immune dysfunction, thyroid issues, and some ANS issues. She is fully functioning, so we consider her "in remission", but not cured.

    If I hadn't developed ME/CFS from our common infection, we might not have recognized her occasional flares as ME/CFS and blamed her illness only on the vaccinations. Since we already knew she had (mild) ME/CFS, it was clear that the vaccinations only aggravated an existing condition..
    Valentijn, Seewell and taniaaust1 like this.
  3. Seewell

    Seewell Senior Member

    Messages:
    234
    Likes:
    142
    Thats interesting soc, the difference in years,so you had m.e cfs before you got vaccinated.
    Thanks for the reply.Ive had this for over 14 years now,i dont think i will get a vaccination any time soon - i dont trust it.
  4. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    6,601
    Likes:
    5,389
    Albuquerque
    Just for a laugh on the subject:

    Piers Morgan getting a flu shot on live TV with Dr. Oz:

    [​IMG]

    Piers Morgan Falls Ill Just Days After Receiving Flu Vaccine

    • [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    Adan Salazar
    Infowars.com
    January 24, 2013

    CNN host Piers Morgan is likely wanting another chat with daytime talk-show host Dr. Oz. for an explanation on why he got sick just days after having a flu vaccination administered on live television.
    According to his recent interview with country music star and actor Dwight Yoakam, the host is admittedly feeling under-the-weather and has a sore throat.
    In his interview with Yoakam, Morgan asks, “You’re a singer; you must have had sore throats over the years. As you can tell, things are deteriorating. Is there any advice you can give me?”
    Yoakam tells him, “Don’t ever take a flu shot again,” referring to Morgan’s recent public stunt in which he and Dr. Oz attempted to dispel the “myth” surrounding flu vaccines that one can acquire the flu post-vaccination; however, Morgan’s “deteriorating” condition does anything but support the TV doctor’s claims.
    Morgan continues, “We’re both doing the math, so I mean, we both saw him put that thing in my arm and within 10 days I’m struck down.”
    Yoakam’s response was that he was skeptical about the efficacy of flu vaccines and that he himself had never been vaccinated: “…I’m not a medical adviser…I don’t believe in them. I’m just suspicious by nature. I saw you get it and here we are.”
    A few days ago, the folks at CNN’s Piers Morgan Tonight thought it’d make for an entertaining segment to have Dr. Oz shoot Morgan up with the flu vaccine on live TV.
    In the segment, Morgan rolled up his sleeve for his “first ever flu shot” as he nervously asked Dr. Oz about the “myths” surrounding the flu vaccine:
    “So the myth about these, and I’m told it’s a myth, is that you can actually get flu or flu-like symptoms simply by having the shot. Is that true?”
    As if reading straight from the Center for Disease Control’s own seasonal flu vaccine fact guide, Oz brazenly replies, “You cannot get the flu from the flu shot because the material is actually dead flu virus. So it cannot cause a problem for you. It’s based on whatever virus was present in Southeast Asia a few days ago.”
    “So that is a myth?” Morgan again asks.
    “That’s a myth,” Oz reassures.
    After he injects Morgan with the dead flu strain, Oz. turns to the crowd and takes a bow as if he’s just performed some tremendous feat.
    Morgan’s very public onset of illness following his inoculation doesn’t do much to help the public image of the vaccine industry, an industry who many have argued may be doing more harm than good. Past news items don’t seem too reassuring either.
    For instance, a few days ago, Reuters gave an account from one of nearly 800 children in Europe that had developed narcolepsy as a result of being immunized with the Pandemrix H1N1 swine flu vaccine produced by the British drugmaker, GlaxoSmithKline in 2009.
    Emmanuel Mignot, a specialist in the sleep disorder at Stanford University in the U.S., stated that there was no doubt in his mind “that Pandemrix increased the occurrence of narcolepsy onset in children in some countries – and probably in most countries.”
    In October 2012, according to the Wall Street Journal, “Switzerland’s health regulator imposed an immediate ban on Novartis AG’s flu vaccines… after possibly contaminated flu shots were found in batches in Italy…”
    This past September, a study led by Vancouver’s Dr. Danuta Skowronski, an influenza expert at the B.C. Centre for Disease Control, found that people who received a flu shot before the outbreak of the 2009 H1N1 pandemic were more likely to get infected with the swine flu virus than those who didn’t take it.
    Also, in July 2010, a report from Australia’s The Age found that influenza vaccines sent 100 infants into life-threatening convulsions, after which Australian health authorities were forced to reiterate a ban “on the use of Fluvax for children under five as a result of the convulsions which occurred at nine times the expected rate.”
    The CDC says side effects like seizures in children are only “moderate” side effects of injecting the Influenza vaccine, while listing adverse reactions like fevers, headaches, and hoarseness as “mild.”
    The CDC list goes on to say, “Life-threatening allergic reactions from vaccines are very rare. If they do occur, it is usually within a few minutes to a few hours after the shot.”
    Alex Jones speaks out on Dwight Yoakam’s defense of the Second Amendment during his interview on CNN’s Piers Morgan Tonight, as well as the irony of Piers’ illness following his public inoculation.
    Dmitri, lisann, Valentijn and 2 others like this.
  5. Seewell

    Seewell Senior Member

    Messages:
    234
    Likes:
    142
    I have edited this post of mine.As maybe i was being a bit over the top at the time of posting.
    Its still a very interesting watch thought.But the last thing i would want to do is make people fearful (cos i have to deal with that every day too,)


    The Exploding Autoimmune Epidemic - Dr Tent








  6. Seewell

    Seewell Senior Member

    Messages:
    234
    Likes:
    142

    Lol - Whoops..
    My mother got vaccinated with the pneumonia and flu vaccines recently and
    was sick for 6 weeks.I was really worryed about her.
    But that was just a coincidence of course.
  7. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    6,601
    Likes:
    5,389
    Albuquerque
    My illness following a flu vaccine must have been coincidence too!

    Sushi
    Seewell likes this.
  8. Shoesies

    Shoesies Senior Member

    bioMom gets flu shot every stinking year because they bring it to her home through home health. She gets sick each and every time for at least three weeks. One incidence was horrendous and put her in hospital. Talking her out of them is not productive. Sigh. Oh, and yes....must be a coincidence.
  9. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

    Messages:
    7,149
    Likes:
    4,406
    australia (brisbane)
    I think us with cfs/me probably have a faulty immune system before we have become ill. I think for some maybe a vaccine can be a trigger just like mono. It would be interesting to know if those that had reactions to vaccines had low nk function prior to vaccines etc. for me i have to have vaccines for work and i havent had any reactions that i am aware of but i do know that hep B vaccine doesnt seem to take and produce antibodies in me. I also dont get flu shots but load up on herbal immune stimulants through winter like astragalus, echinacea etc.

    It just doesnt seem black and white as many get vaccines and dont have issues and i think probably has saved alot more lives then not, but i think they should be researching heavily into why some people get bad reactions from them and develop a test to find out if one is a poor responder to vaccines.
  10. snowathlete

    snowathlete

    Messages:
    2,045
    Likes:
    2,155
    UK
    Humans are arrogant. We think we understand it all and so have control but fact is there is no 100% safe vaccine, but they are Promoted as if they are. It's about risk and often they are worth the risk. I believe they are worth the risk for some things but not everything. I'm reluctant to get a flu jab personally.

    Can we trust the word of a well qualified doctor? Not always, I mean loads of them think ME/CFS isn't even real even though its staring them in the face. I think it's important to make your own decision and not let a doctor make it for you.
  11. Seewell

    Seewell Senior Member

    Messages:
    234
    Likes:
    142
    I tryed to tell my mum the possible dangers of the vaccines before hand - But ive found if you go to far people turn off.
    All you can do is try i guess.
  12. Helen

    Helen Senior Member

    Messages:
    466
    Likes:
    408
    Sweden
    Hi Seewell,

    I am convinced that vaccines can give us ME/CFS, at least if they contains mercury as a preservative. That has been quite common and if we are genetically predisposed for a blocked methylation, mercury could start this blockage. Richvank who so sadly passed away, have written a lot about this here
  13. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,850
    Likes:
    4,762
    Sth Australia
    I think I had something wrong with my immune system before I got ME/CFS for a couple of reasons (eg bedridden for 10 weeks of severe mono when I was a teen. I dont know if Hep B vaccine played any part in me getting ME/CFS when in my mid 20s or not... as I got this illness in my second year? of a 4 year Naturopathy Diploma (hard to tell when it started as it started off with bouts of what I and drs though were a virus and at first these bouts were very spread out.. Due to planning to work in a health field we all had to get Hep B done. I got tested as I'd been a volunteer in the ambulance service and already had had my Hep B in the past but it was found I didnt have antibodies so mine was redone. On a further check and that.. once again I didnt have any antibodies.. and hence I think may of even went throu yet another lot of Hep B vaccination (after all that I still dont know if Ive got antibodies).

    Did any of those Hep B vaccinations relate to me getting ME/CFS while I was at college?? Its quite hard for me to know but its possible. Too many late lights and stress with college exams were thou my first ME/CFS trigger and the noticable one. (It took over 10 years of this illness before I found out about the vaccine connection so its too hard now to look back and work out how my illness corresponded to those vaccines).

    Isnt it 5-10%? of ME/CFS cases were triggered off by a vaccine? The hep B is a known one for doing that amoung our community.
    Seewell and heapsreal like this.
  14. Seewell

    Seewell Senior Member

    Messages:
    234
    Likes:
    142

    Ive thought that maybe we all have this virus asleep inside us - and then one day we get a vaccine(or whatever)
    that weakens are system.Then the virus wakes up.

    But saying that i didnt get a vaccine before my m.e c/f/s - i had a bad cold that i couldnt shake off,and at the
    same time i was highly stressed from a relationship problem.

    I use herbs too.
    heapsreal likes this.
  15. Seewell

    Seewell Senior Member

    Messages:
    234
    Likes:
    142
    Even though i dont know Richvank,im sorry to hear that Helen. atb
  16. Seewell

    Seewell Senior Member

    Messages:
    234
    Likes:
    142
    Ive had doctors like this,you can see it in there eyes - i say in my mind, if you could live in my body for
    one day you would apologize to me for what your thinking !
    snowathlete likes this.
  17. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    2,803
    Likes:
    1,388
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    If you have poor methylation, a vaccine can be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Or it can be just another load on the system until something else is the last straw.

    The cause, though, is actually poor methylation.
    taniaaust1, Jarod and Helen like this.
  18. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,728
    Likes:
    2,474
    The hepatitis B vaccination is on very rare occasions reported to cause ME/CFS, and in this case, I believe that the symptoms of ME/CFS appear almost immediately after the vaccination. Interestingly, hepatitis B infection itself can produce symptoms that are ME/CFS-like. Though I understand there are now cases of ME/CFS arising after the new papilloma virus (HPV) vaccine.

    Dr Chia mentions in this video that he has found vaccinations are "a very small risk factor in some of the patients" (see timecode 4:00 of the video).


    But the question we should really be asking is: "does a lack of vaccination cause ME/CFS?"

    Why? Well, ME/CFS is strongly linked to enterovirus infection, particularly the enteroviruses coxsackievirus B and echovirus (and Dr Chia is performing sterling work to try to prove that enteroviruses cause ME/CFS).

    So this begs the question, why don't we have a vaccine for coxsackievirus B and echovirus?

    It certainly is technically feasible to create such a vaccine (as this thread discusses). If we had all had coxsackievirus B and echovirus vaccinations in our youth, perhaps none of us here would be suffering from ME/CFS.

    As everyone knows, the vaccine for poliovirus was a huge success, and entirely eliminated the dreadful paralyzing, crippling childhood disease of poliomyelitis in the developed world. Up to 20,000 people were paralyzed and permanently crippled by polio each year, and about 1,000 people died from it each year in the US before the vaccine. Ref: 1

    In some extremely rare cases (one in 2.4 million) polio vaccine itself unfortunately causes poliomyelitis, but the numbers here are very tiny, certainly much, much smaller that the 20,000 people that used to get poliomyelitis before the vaccine was introduced. So there is a clear overwhelming benefit from polio vaccine.


    Now poliovirus is actually an enterovirus, and so is closely related to the enteroviruses coxsackievirus B and echovirus that some researchers think cause ME/CFS.

    It is therefore a great shame that all the research conducted in the 1930s, 40s and 50s into identifying the specific enteroviruses that caused polio, and into developing a vaccine for these polioviruses, did not go a little further, and also at the same time develop a vaccine for these nasty coxsackievirus B and echoviruses that are linked to ME/CFS.

    Introducing a new coxsackievirus B and echoviruses vaccine now may be too late to help any of us ME/CFS patients here, but such a vaccine might very well prevent a whole new generation of people from contracting ME/CFS, and having so much of their lives wasted by this disease.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2013
    taniaaust1 and Neunistiva like this.
  19. Seewell

    Seewell Senior Member

    Messages:
    234
    Likes:
    142
    So everyone who developed m.e c/f/s after having a vaccination got the hepatitis B shot did they.

    I posted a thread about Dr Chia a short while ago,very interesting stuff.

    I respect your opinion(this forum is a great mine of information)but i do not trust vaccines.
    There have been some recent reports of babys developing epilepsy after being vaccinated(i cant remember
    which one right now).

    Have learnt a lot about my body along this m.e c/f/s road.
    I try to be as healthy as i can,with a good diet - and also use herbal remedies & some supplements.
    I went down the modern medicine route,the first couple of years of getting this.
  20. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,728
    Likes:
    2,474
    I think very, very few people have developed ME/CFS after a vaccine, barring very rare hep B shot cases. Many people develop ME/CFS after a viral infection, typically starting with a sore throat, or gastroenteritis. Viral infection is the classic route to ME/CFS. Are you sure you are not confusing ME/CFS with autism; for the latter there are many reports of autism appearing immediately after vaccination? But not for ME/CFS.

    Vaccines are not entirely safe, people do die from them, or get serious side effects.

    But neither are motor vehicles entirely safe. More than 30,000 people die each year in the US due to road accidents. However, nobody wants to ban cars, a nobody makes too much fuss about these deaths. Presumably that is because the benefits of motor transport far outweigh these deaths. So as a society we are willing to accept more than 30,000 deaths a year just in order to keep our cars. The cost–benefits of vaccines need to be considered in the same way.

    The problem with vaccination is that it is also an ethical issue. If you don't take a vaccination yourself, you eliminate your risk of getting a severe side effect from it, but your are relying on other people in the community taking their vaccines, in order to stop the spread of the nasty diseases the vaccines are designed to halt. So it might be considered unethical for an individual to shun their vaccines, while relying on others to take theirs.

    Of course, with a condition like ME/CFS, where there is immune system weakness and dysfunction, it may not a good idea to take vaccines. I certainly don't take the yearly flu vaccine, in case it has a bad affect on my ME/CFS.

    If we knew beforehand who would be badly affected by a vaccination, and who would be fine with it, then we could just give the vaccinations to those people whose constitution could take it without any side effects. Maybe one day will be able to know beforehand.
    rosie26, Neunistiva and SOC like this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page