The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Are UK warrants / judge statements available to public?

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by Ren, Sep 3, 2014.

  1. Ren

    Ren .

    This is in regard to the UK parents who were arrested "on suspicion of cruelty" and then released, in Spain.

    Does the pubic have access to (or a right to access) 1) the warrant that was issued? And 2) the decision (and reasoning behind the decision) to withdraw the warrant?

    If so, how do you access this information? Thank you!

    I'm curious because the AP articles have focused on the hospital's statement that their treatment protocol has a high rate of success. The AP articles do not however mention the parents' concerns about the hospital's protocol having a greater risk of harm than the treatment the parents wanted to access/explore.

    I'd like to know what the legal implications are (if any) regarding parents'/patients' rights to choose treatment/therapy methods which have the least risk of harm / negative side effects.
    ("Parents of Ill UK boy fight extradition from Spain" - original/not updated AP article) (Note: Title in link and article title are not the same. AP article title: "Ill UK boy's parents freed from custody in Spain")


    Edit I: For anyone interested, this link has some limited info on how the warrant came to be, who signed it, which lawyers think it was used incorrectly, plus info on legal rights to refuse treatment, power to make someone a ward of the state, etc. in the UK

    Edit II:
    "...the couple were distressed to learn that they “do not have custody” of Ashya as a result of a court order imposed earlier this week, which makes him a ward of court. The order, which prevents Ashya being removed from the hospital in Malaga, was obtained by Portsmouth City Council and Southampton General Hospital...the two bodies offered conflicting views of which was able to give their consent for the restriction to be lifted...A spokesman added that it was up to Southampton General Hospital whether to object to any request to allow Ashya to be taken out of the hospital in Malaga." The hospital meanwhile has said questions should be directed to the council.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2014
    *GG* likes this.
  2. Generally, cases involving children are kept very tightly secret.
    While on one hand for very good reason, it has been used to cover up severe abuse, such as institutionalized use of children's care homes as slave pens for the elite to take their pick to molest.

    Ren likes this.
  3. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    This story seems extremely odd to me. Why should these parents be arrested for deciding they wanted to personally finance the likely better cancer treatment of proton bean therapy for their child?

    It is very normal for those needing medical treatment to consider the various options, do the research, and then decide on the best treatment approach for them or their children. Sometimes deciding on what approach to take can be difficult, because different medical professionals may have different options. But it is certainly not unusual for a patient to make the final choice themself.

    Therefore, under what basis were these parents arrested? Certainly not out of negligence for their child, because they were in Spain with the intention of selling a property in order to raise funds for the proton beam therapy, which is available in the in the Czech Republic and the United States, but not at present in the UK.

    So the parent appear to be paragons of virtue when it comes to putting their child first.
    Valentijn and Gingergrrl like this.
  4. Medical profession and other associated are arrogant BASTARDS, and the British System is so utterly class ridden and monstrous, that's why
    see the "Satanic Child Abuse" crap from few decades ago, arrogant psychologists/social workers, with no hard evidence, convinced themselves lots of kids were being ritually abused
    ruined entire communities
    and those scum responsible never got jailed for it

    my mother, as adult, was sexually molested by her GP
    now my mum was one gutsy woman, but since he was a GP, a psychiatrist AND minister of the kirk (religious leader) she knew no one would believe her
    Two other women, separately over the years told me the same stories about that bastard
    just as well she never told me when I was well.
  5. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

    I posted the same thing yesterday and don't understand why parents do not have the option to choose which medical treatment they want for their own child? If they are paying for it privately, then why should the government or insurance care and how is it a crime! I posted yesterday, too, that I had a former co-worker who did proton beam therapy for prostate cancer (in the U.S.) and was completely cured. Why should these parents not have that choice? I was shocked and don't understand what they were arrested for?
    Valentijn likes this.
  6. golden

    golden Senior Member

    Clear Light
    I dont understabd why people here dont understand.

    This happens a lot. Instead of forfilling the role of providing accurate scientific medical information to patients and allowing them to give informed consent,

    patients rights are regularly abused and stomped all over the moment a medic opens their mouth.

    Doctors are delusional. Particularly NHS ones!

    One can hear this from the latest rubbish being spouted by Dr Peter Wilson, from South Hampton Hospital. The lies just flow out naturally. He called the parents 'irresponsible'.

    He also stated that the parents were under stress and so couldnt make good decisions.

    Whilst the proton beam clinic is happy to take Ashya for immediate treatment and says its the No.1 choice for children, the UK hospital (which wouldnt recommend proton beam therapy, is trying to interfere stating the child must undergo two rounds of Chemotherapy first which would delay the Proton beam therapy for weeks.

    The Court will decide as he is a ward of court. Outrageous.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
  7. thing is, children are 1000 times more susceptible to damage form radiation than adults are
    that means X ray therapy is very dangerous for kids when talking of the levels needed to kill cancers
    hence work on systems that "fire" from different angles etc to focus the effect and spread out collateral damage

    proton bombardment's more accurate and safer from what I've read.
    It is though, much harder to do, more expensive and THAT'S why there will be an issue, because the asshole doctors like this case won't get the cachet, the kudos, the control over it
    THAT is what they demand: control
    Valentijn likes this.
  8. Valentijn

    Valentijn The Diabolic Logic

    I agree that control is probably the primary issue. The doctors get to decide who should get the therapy, and are probably taking into account the child's future prospects, family situation, etc.

    So the doctor might be all in favor for the therapy for a cute little blonde girl who's an only child, or a successful businessman with a family to support, but his own biases might be a problem when the child is an ethnic minority who has a lot of siblings and might suffer permanent brain damage if he survives. He might be putting it upon himself to decide that it's best for the child and society if the child is just left to die.

    It's a disgusting situation. It's bad enough that the doctor was unwilling to offer the treatment, and completely outrageous that he would accuse the parents of abuse or neglect by taking the child to get a mainstream medical treatment far superior to anything he was willing to offer.

    And unfortunately it's a somewhat common situation to see a child's medical problem grossly inflated to provoke a response from the police, concerned citizens, and even the "kidnappers". For example, a report might exclaim how little Johnny might die in the next 24 hours if he doesn't get his insulin, but that simply isn't true - a medical emergency from high blood sugar would take quite a while to develop, and it's the insulin itself which causes the urgent problems.

    Similarly, an ME "doctor" in Hawaii accused the mother of a British patient of neglect and/or putting the child at risk by taking him to the airport to go home, and threatened to call the police. He wasn't getting his oxygen, coffee, improperly provided prescription drugs, and feedback therapy anymore! Oh no! :rolleyes:

    Anyhow, I think a lot of people have control issues, and the ones with a medical degree are aware that they have very powerful leverage to use against people, especially when it comes to the treatment of their children in their control.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
    golden and Gingergrrl like this.
  9. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

    @Valentijn, I totally understand your explanation above (as sickening as that reality is to me!) but was wondering if it is actually legal? I get it that the doctor wants to be in control, or get the kudos, or play God but why is that legal leading to the parents actual arrest? Do they twist the truth saying that the parents are abusive so they are therefore arrested for another reason? And if the arrest if determined unfounded, are the parents then allowed to pursue the treatment of their choice?

    I know the case you are referring to in Hawaii (I won't mention the doctors name) but after reading the whole thing, IMO she was not a CFS expert, and not even sure if she was a real doctor, and the whole thing was a scam involving multiple parties and a poor family they lured from Ireland for so-called treatment!
  10. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    I agree, it is the legal issues here that are more in question than the medical. Under what jurisdiction can you arrest someone for turning down a suggested medical treatment and seeking a better one for their child?

    Of course, I guess a lot depends on what the doctors told the police. If the doctors misrepresented the situation to the police, and told the police that the parents were refusing life saving cancer treatment for the child and fled abroad, then that would be a a different situation; in this case the blame would be with the doctors, for misrepresenting the truth, rather than the police.

    According to the child's father, speaking in this video at timecode 2:15 the brain cancer his child (Ashya King) has is a medulloblastoma, and he said he was told by the NHS oncologists that "proton bean therapy would have no benefit whatsoever for medulloblastoma". However, the father said when he researched online, he found that this was not the case.

    In fact, proton beam therapy does appear to have some advantage over radiotherapy. This study says that "results of this prospective trial of protons for medulloblastoma confirm acceptable tumor control comparable to that seen with photons [ie, radiotherapy] while demonstrating some mitigation of neurocognitive deficits."

    Though another issue here is that proton beam therapy is a finite resource, and it says here that proton beam therapy "currently needs to be rationed in a way that provides the greatest benefit to children requiring radiotherapy. Therefore, children in whom cure is less likely and/or for whom the burden of late effects is less, may not derive as much benefit from proton therapy."

    So it is quite possible that the doctors determined that Ashya King did not fit the profile of a child most needing of this finite resource of proton beam therapy.

    If this is the case, then what Ashya King's parents are doing is pushing themselves ahead in the queue in front of more needy cases. Which perhaps may ultimate mean that some other child is denied proton beam therapy.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
    Valentijn likes this.
  11. What parent wouldn't seek better help elsewhere?
    I'd go insane if l had the fortune to have kids, then one suffered like that! :(
    Simple fact is the docors are arrogant
    Ren and Tito like this.

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