Choline on the Brain? A Guide to Choline in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
http://phoenixrising.me/research-2/the-brain-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-mecfs/choline-on-the-brain-a-guide-to-choline-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-by-cort-johnson-aug-2005
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Are the oil-based supplements clogging our mitochondria?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Gondwanaland, Sep 28, 2014.

  1. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    After reading a blog post from @howirecovered explaining how fish oil is detrimental to the mitochondria, it got me thinking if perhaps all the oil-based supplements wouldn't be accumulating and "suffocating" our mitochondria.

    The excess of oil-based supplements takes time to be flushed from the body. So I am doing an experiment and will stop the fish oil and the vitamin D and take the vitamin E only 1x or 2x a week. Right now I am not taking others like leicithin, choline, serine, CoQ10.

    izzy
     
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  2. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    The oil/fat from supplements is negligible compared to the oil/fats from food sources. So no, supplements does not "clog up your mitochondria".
     
  3. rwac

    rwac Senior Member

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    @adreno Not omega-3's though, supplements from flax or fish are usually the main source there.

    @Gondwanaland Just make sure the oil in supplements is either olive oil or MCT oil, those should be all right, especially in tiny amounts.

    Vitamin E is usually mixed with vegetable oil, that's really annoying, but you can get it without if you try.
     
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  4. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    That blog post refers to this study about the effects of acrolein, a product of lipid peroxidation of oils, has on mitochondria. The authors state that glutathione and N-acetylcysteine prevented the bad effects that acrolein has on mitochondria.

    You can also take the antioxidant astaxanthin with your fish oil. This helps prevent lipid peroxidation of oils in the first place:

    Effects of astaxanthin supplementation on lipid peroxidation
     
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  5. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    I can find no evidence that fish oil is "detrimental to mitochondria". I can however find evidence to the contrary:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22248591
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2014
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  6. liverock

    liverock Senior Member

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    The Japanese probably have the highest consumption of fish in the world and 1/3rd of the heart disease. There are 5,000 mitochondria in each heart cell which is 25 times more thany other muscle in the body. If fish oil was so damaging to mitochondria the Japanese would have perished as a nation long ago.
     
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  7. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    It does say in this paper that:
    I guess this means it would be a good idea to use fresh essential fatty acid supplements.

    There's also evidence for increased oxidative stress in ME/CFS, so presumably that could oxidize your omega 3 supplement a bit.

    This is one reason why krill oil is recommended in ME/CFS as a source of omega 3s, because krill oil contains astaxanthin which helps prevent lipid peroxidation. Astaxanthin is also anti-inflammatory.

    Why Krill Oil May Be a Better Choice Than Fish Oil
     
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  8. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    Astaxanthin is also in salmon oil.
     
  9. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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  10. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Thanks everyone for the great replies.

    The vitamin E is an important supplement to me. I started taking it because I am +/- for Factor V Leiden and had a DVT in 2011. I do not take a blood thinner anymore, but since I took it I got a vascular (?) pain in the shoulders which prevents me from sleeping on the side if I don't take the Gamma E. It comes in rice oil. I also have a dry vit E (succinate) that I take 1x/week instead of the Gamma E.

    I tried to decrease my vit E intake (took every other day for a couple of weeks) and the shoulder pain came back.

    Unfortunately I do not tolerate vit C on a daily basis, and I read that it is desirable to have vit C on board when taking vit E.

    My vit D is in MCT oil and I take only one drop 3x/week (= 500 IU + 100mcg of K2). My blood level is 41 right now.

    My cat does the quality control of my Omega 3 supps :cat:

    I do have astaxanthin at home and I was taking it only 1x/week. I am not sure about the iodine content of fish oils and astaxanthin. I am trying to avoid iodine right now to see if my anti thyroglobulin antibodies will keep decreasing as I increase thyroid support.

    It is really hard to pinpoint what goes wrong when taking many supplements and also hard to tell if the ones that I take for such long time (10 months) could be backfiring at some point.

    izzy
     
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  11. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Even Montgomery Burns said last week on The Simpsons that "Now they are saying that omega 3 pills are bad for you" [​IMG] :p:rofl:
     
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  12. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    Vitamin E is mixed with vegetable oil to keep it from oxidizing and going rancid. Rancid oil may be harmful to your health. I open Vitamin E capsules and put them in my oils so that they won't go rancid.

    http://www.healwithfood.org/bad-for-you/rancid-oil.php#ixzz3IkHltYDc
    http://www.livestrong.com/article/459786-can-you-get-sick-from-eating-rancid-oil/
     
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  13. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    @Gondwanaland @CFS_for_19_years or anyone else taking Vit E- I was wondering what you take it for and at what dose per day? My husband read a study that Vit E can help with angina and cardiac symptoms and that it is generally a good supplement to take. I have never taken it before and wanted to get some info from those who take it regularly. I want to hear good or bad and not invested in it, just curious!
     
  14. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    @Gingergrrl
    There is a good description of vitamin E properties at the Linus Pauling Institute page.
    I take it b/c I am +/- for Factor V Leiden. I had a DVT and took a blood thinner for 1.5 years. Additionally, I noticed I keeps my good cholesterol high (between 90 and 100) and my drs. satisfied.

    I take the NOW Gamma E for almost one year now as recommended by Freddd. I don't like its dark gel cap which make my urine smell terrible (I suspect the gelatine degrades my B1). Recently I started taking vit E succinate (as per Yasko) 1x or 2x a week in place of the Gamma E, but haven't noticed anything different.

    Vitamin K2 is very important in my case as well though. Vit E and K are antagonists. Vit E inhibits K's activity (esp. re platelet aggregation, which is K1 function). K2's major function is to avoid soft tissue calcification (a known side effect from blood thinners). So I am looking into balancing D-E-K.

    About angina, I know nothing about it, but have been reading a lot about magnesium, and I've come accross many references how magnesium prevents angina.
    Further studies:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3170960
    http://content.onlinejacc.org/article.aspx?articleid=1121366
    http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/79/3/597.full.pdf
     
  15. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I forgot to answer this one: I take 400iu per day, but right now only 5 days a week.
     
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  16. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    Thanks and I decided against the Vit E for now. Was just researching different things and trying to understand them all better.
     

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