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"Are most positive findings in health psychology false.... or at least somewhat exaggerated?" (2009)

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by Dolphin, Aug 30, 2012.

  1. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    Free full text: http://www.psychologytoday.com/files/attachments/51945/most-false.pdf


    This is only 2.5 pages and I thought it contains a lot of good tips and astute observations. However, if you are not familiar with some concepts, some bits might be not straightforward
     
    biophile and Snow Leopard like this.
  2. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    Second last paragraph:
    I was going to start posting quotes but it'd probably be 30% of the paper and then I'd have to add in explanations. Easiest just to suggest to interested people to check it out as it's only 2.5 pages.
     
    Waverunner and Simon like this.
  3. user9876

    user9876 Senior Member

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    All very familiar.

    I think there is a fundimental problem in that they have no underlying causal model to verify or test and so are looking for correlations that support their views.

    I think a really big difference would come if the authors had to publish anonymised data along with the exact algorithms they use to get their results. This would have two effects firstly allow critisism and secondly it would make the authors think twice about manipulating results.
     
    Waverunner, SOC and Dolphin like this.
  4. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Thanks. Could be a worthy reference.
     
  5. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member

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    This would be great if the protocol was published before the trial was started and not altered pre-publication.

    It would help keep drug company sponsored studies more honest too.
     
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  6. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Its good to see some in health psychology are grappling with the issues that destroy the credibility of the science. Its a necessary step, but I think will be nowhere near enough.

    I agree with user9876 in that they need verifiable mechanisms that can be tested. In the case of functional somatic syndromes I have been saying for some time now that there are many objective physiological abnormalities. If they want to postulate mental causation there must be mediating brain abnormalities. The only other alternative is to invoke magic.Such models would be testable, and the science could advance.

    Bye, Alex
     
    biophile likes this.
  7. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Must say whenever I see psychology/psychiatry popping up it's a switch off - miles from real medicine. Why do we bother with these "hang abouts" as real medical specialists in various medical disciplines continue to reveal the pathologies and find treatments.
     
  8. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    Another post of yours, Enid, with the same theme.

    If you don't find the topic of interest, nobody is forcing you to read it.

    As I think would be clear to most people, setting up such a thread doesn't signify any support for psychobabble explanations for ME/CFS.
     
    Enid likes this.
  9. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Hi Enid, with Denmark about to do away with neuroimmune diseases in favour of psych, the pending release of DSM-V and the discussions about the new ICD, there is still very compelling reason to discuss and refute psychobabble. Even if everyone with ME had a diagnostic test and a cure tomorrow, the psych lobbyists would still be pushing for supreme authority over the other patients. This isn't going away without a fight. People have been fighting this since the 19th century. It has to be thoroughly discredited, and no amount of being proved wrong by biomedicine, for disease after disease, has stopped them. This is a gross and systemic failure of the scientific process. Bye, Alex
     
  10. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Yes I agree alex there is work to done still to stop the insidious creep of the psychos. And as suggested I'll keep away from their claptrap Dolphin - it raises hackles (not good for one) recalling the quiet authoritative manner 4 junior Docs diagnosed "all in your mind" though collapsed with passings out.
     
  11. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Alex
    that's why I think legal/political attacks are needed on them
    they are CRIMINALS abusing systems for their own profit and egoes, to the ruin and even death of the sick and needy.
    The medica; system has proven itself incapable of dealing with them, so let's see how the bastards like criminal prosecutions! ;)
     
  12. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    Thanks Enid. :)
     
  13. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    One correction, SB, the medical, government and scientific systems have all failed, its not just the medical systems. Hysteria claptrap was resisted in the 19th century, but here we are today still hearing the same babble. Its not science. Its not scientifically substantiated. Its not even formulated in such a way it can be scientifically investigated.

    Whether it is criminal has to be decided by the courts, if or when we get there. However, I think a far stronger case can be made that its seriously unethical: a lesser charge, but far easier to try to prove. In both the medical and scientific communities unethical conduct is a serious and career altering issue.

    Bye, Alex
     
    PhoenixDown likes this.
  14. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Alex
    alas at least in UK, "ethical" issues are dealt with by...the BMA...who are...dcotors and have shown themselves often to be...wahoos ;)
    I think a criminal or even civil prosecution for say Sophia Mirza's death is needed, because the entire damn system is set up to protect all the recalcitrant, small minded, nepotistic, corrupt, deviant bastards top to bottom
    Alas, only "blood and thunder" gets the attention of the sheeple, and ONLY when things gets in the news or have someone with real damn force, will such change.

    Our systems are drowning in their own filth :/
    As I keep saying, the ones who care about something, do that something
    leaving many senior administrative positions open to scum or incompetants or those looking for an easy meal and who just don't care, and in any event, they soon drown out anyone who'd make waves, because all they care about is ensuring their graavy train rolls on smoothly.
    But their very stalling of reform/change ensures worse catastrophies form the build of a mass of issues.
    Folk KNEW the banking crisis was coming, elsewhere on net folks were talking about it two years before hand that I know of.
    madness :(

    hm, want to set up a new colony, nice n' sensible, on Mars, mate? :p
     
  15. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Hi SilverbladeTE, thats how its set up, but its that way because its allowed to be that way. Set allegations to the BMA. Watch. Show they are corrupt if they don't act. Ditto for the colleges and unethical conduct for allowing their members to be unethical. Challenge the universities and hospitals for the same. Challenge the NHS and the British government. I think this needs a clean sweep - but to do that the allegations need detailed substantiation. Its not a quick one-two knockout - this is Rocky XXVII, geriatric division - as many rounds as it takes. Furthermore charges can be made with the UN and European union, but I am not sure what options exist under those organizations. If the system is corrupt the entire system has to be challenged. That cannot be done without the evidence. Fortunately I believe the evidence exists in decades of public record. It can be done. Its just not going to happen this week, this year, or maybe even this decade.

    Its probably not going to be enough to show they are corrupt in a closed legal setting - at some point its going to have to be shown this is the case to the public, in such a way it can't be disputed. Thats a tall ask. Its also impossible if we think it can't be done. I think it can. I just think its going to take a lot of effort.

    Bye, Alex
     
  16. Bob

    Bob

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    Continuing the same theme in the Guardian...

    False positives: fraud and misconduct are threatening scientific research
    High-profile cases and modern technology are putting scientific deceit under the microscope
    Alok Jha, science correspondent
    Thursday 13 September 2012 18.12 BST

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/sep/13/scientific-research-fraud-bad-practice?INTCMP=SRCH

    "The field of psychology has come under particular scrutiny because many results in the scientific literature defy replication by other researchers. Critics say it is too easy to publish psychology papers which rely on sample sizes that are too small, for example, or to publish only those results that support a favoured hypothesis"

    "In many respects, psychology is at a crossroads – the decisions we take now will determine whether or not it remains a serious, credible, scientific discipline along with the harder sciences," says Chris Chambers, a psychologist at Cardiff University.


    It talks about: massaging data; selectively publishing data; not publishing negative studies; outright fraud; failing to declare interests, etc.
     
    Simon likes this.
  17. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Ta Bob. That looked interesting.
     
  18. biophile

    biophile Places I'd rather be.

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    I have defended the scientific validity of psychology before, but I take issue with this (emphasis added):
    Psychology has progressed from adopting more scientific and statistical methods over the last several decades, but when was it ever regarded as "a serious, credible, scientific discipline along with the harder sciences"? The strive to be regarded as such was never achieved and is now faltering. Furthermore, although these problems are "not unique to psychology" as stated, psychology seems to be suffering much more from them than other disciplines.

    Many proponents of CBT/GET for ME/CFS are psychiatrists rather than psychologists, but their discipline and hypotheses are in trouble as well, and I wonder if it is just as matter of time before we see a recognizable name in the ME/CFS world becoming the subject of an article on undeniable and confirmed misconduct.
     
    alex3619 likes this.
  19. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    I am slowly moving to the position that psychology cannot ever be considered "a serious, credible, scientific discipline along with the harder sciences". The desire to follow that path is one of the things holding psychology and psychiatry back. The hard sciences paradigm is for hard sciences. So-called soft sciences will fail following that paradigm. There needs to be an engagement on how to do science in areas where things are not as clear cut and measurable. I am working on that premise, very slowly: in fact I began working toward that in 1986 although at that time my target was the complexity involved in artificial intelligence. A big chunk of my book will be looking at this issue. Bye, Alex
     
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  20. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Picking up on your considered response alex - unethical - now this is 2012 and yet some idiot can with complete conviction summon one back from unconsciousness declaring "it's all in your mind" ! - wish that it were and he too. A pathetic to whom for the sake of those less able around me in A & E aged with usual confusion I brought him scorn from my own Uni psychology.
     

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