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Approaches to treating D-Lactic Acidosis

Discussion in 'Gastrointestinal and Urinary' started by Peyt, Jun 4, 2017.

  1. Peyt

    Peyt Senior Member

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    Hi,
    Has there been any effective approaches to treating D-Lactic Acidosis?
    I have tried B1 which I noticed was very helpful at first and made many of my symptoms go away but started to give me headaches after a few days... so now I am looking for other alternatives such as any recommended probiotics or other natural remedies that may help treat D-Lactic Acidosis. Your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated.
     
  2. Emootje

    Emootje Senior Member

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    The Netherlands
    Crux, Peyt and Thinktank like this.
  3. SB_1108

    SB_1108 Senior Member

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    I've been dealing with this recently and found some relief with an elemental diet. Interpretive Theurapeutics has one that taste fairly decent. It hasn't been a cure for the acidosis but it has helped me manage it better. I did two straight weeks of nothing but the formula then slowly started adding foods back.
     
  4. SB_1108

    SB_1108 Senior Member

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    Also I assume you've tried oral baking soda?

    Have you looked into Custom Probiotics D-Lactate free formula?
     
  5. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    Do you mean physicians' elemental diet from integrative therapeutics?
    I'm in the process of creating my own formula from scratch but am having difficulty finding a multivitamin that i can tolerate. I believe an elemental diet will reduce my Crohn's disease, high d-lactic acid and the overgrowth of clostridium as shown on the MSA test. I'm also pretty sure i have mild SIBO.
     
  6. SB_1108

    SB_1108 Senior Member

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    Yes that is the one! :)

    I tried Vivonex but that was absolutely vile and I purchased the ingredients to make the homemade version but that was equally as terrible as the vivonex so I stuck with the Physician's elemental diet since the taste is tolerable.

    I also had high clostridium on MSA.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
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  7. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    Haha really, didn't you try some flavoring like vanilla extract?

    Where did you get the physicians' formula if i may ask?

    Their website states the following:
     
  8. SB_1108

    SB_1108 Senior Member

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    I didn't try vanilla extract but I did try some other stevia flavorings and it was awful!

    I was able to purchase the physicians formula from both my local naturopath and my local supplement store. If you have a local store or Dr office that uses Emerson Ecologics as a distributor, they can order it for you from them. You may be able to call Emerson Ecologics and see if there is anyone local to you?
     
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  9. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    Depends on what's causing D-lactate acidosis. If it's from the bowel not getting enough blood flow for the digestion process (gut ischemia), nitric oxide boosting supplements can help, anything with citrulline or arginine or even n-acetylcysteine. All are gut artery vasodilators although it can be a slow process in taking many months to feel the improvement.

    Short Bowel Syndrome or other major issues with nutrient malabsorption can cause D-lactate acidosis too. Gattex (teduglutide) is the latest med for that.
    https://www.iffgd.org/news/industry-treatment-news/gattex.html
    https://med.virginia.edu/ginutrition/wp-content/uploads/sites/199/2014/06/Parrish-September-15.pdf
     
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  10. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    Nutricia have a product too, Elemental 028. I've only had the powder before which is not that great as far as taste goes either but they have it as a ready to drink product too.
     
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  11. SB_1108

    SB_1108 Senior Member

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    How do doctors know which one is the cause?
     
  12. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    I doubt that many doctors would even think of this as a cause of symptoms in the first place or maybe only if the patient has Short Bowel Syndrome and would probably just test for L-lactate in any case suspected as having an acidosis basis.

    It doesn't really matter what the cause, it's an uncommon test to have but it's abnormal to have elevated D-lactate levels so if you suspect it, just get it tested for.
     
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  13. Thewonders92

    Thewonders92

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    Pyrroloquinoline Quinone

    In vitro
    studies using a purified rabbit muscle LDH show that PQQ inhibits the formation of lactate from pyruvate in the presence of NADH (forward reaction), whereas it enhances the conversion of lactate to pyruvate in the presence of NAD+ (reverse reaction).

    https://www.nature.com/articles/srep26723
    https://examine.com/supplements/pyrroloquinoline-quinone/


    Berberine (do not take this with antibiotics, read the examine page to learn more on why)


    Intestinal inflammation was assessed by measuring myeloperoxidase activity. Intestinal histopathology was also assessed. The results revealed that berberine decreased the serum D-lactate level, intestinal FD4 clearance, and myeloperoxidase activity. Edema and inflammation were reduced by berberine in the intestinal mucosa and submucosa, and the Chiu's scores, indices of intestinal mucosal injury, also decreased in the berberine-treated group. In addition, berberine exerted these protective effects in a dose-dependent manner, with a significant difference from the control group at doses of 150 and 200 mg/kg.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25341882
    https://examine.com/supplements/berberine/


    Gypenosides (Gynostema, Jiaogulan)


    Blood lactate concentration of the GGP groups was significantly lower and blood glucose
    concentration of the GGP groups was significantly higher than that in the NC group.

    http://scholar.google.ca/scholar_ur...=0ahUKEwj56bnTuZHWAhVG0WMKHUe5DJMQgAMIJSgBMAA
    https://examine.com/supplements/gynostemma-pentaphyllum/



    D-Lactic acidosis and CFS reading

    https://translational-medicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12967-017-1229-1
    http://ecmdb.ca/proteins/P06149
    https://acutecaretesting.org/en/art...ctate-clinical-significance-of-the-difference
    https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2016/03/01/lactate-fibromyalgia-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/
     
  14. SB_1108

    SB_1108 Senior Member

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    Oddly enough my l-lactate levels increased/worsened after berberine.
     
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  15. Thewonders92

    Thewonders92

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    Your L-Lactate increased? Do you have troubles with L-Lactate?

    What were your readings for D & L before and after berberine supplementation? What dosage were you using?
     
  16. Thewonders92

    Thewonders92

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    It's fairly common for L-Lactate to increase following depletion of D, they compete with one another. L is used by the brain for energy though so getting worse is strange.

    What about Jiaogulan extract? Or PQQ on Berberine, it's possible that a severe PQQ "deficiency" (spread too thin) could prevent Berberine from doing its job of speeding up NAD synthesis with Lactate? I know it's been established 6-9 drags of a cigarette eliminates PQQ from the serum temporarily, so it's as finicky as VitC in that regard, could be that your body is too burdened by toxins to keep up?
     
  17. bakhel

    bakhel

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    Do you have a source for you´re statement about increased L-lactate levels after depletion of D-lactate? I am just trying to explain this to my doctor and have him test me for D-lactate levels, which isn´t the easiest thing since the test have to be analyzed in Sweden as far as I know (I live in Norway)...:bang-head:
     
  18. Thewonders92

    Thewonders92

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    D-Lactate inhibits L-Lactate and Pyruvate usage.

    "D-lactate significantly decreased oxygen consumption caused by L-lactate in rat brain (67% reduction in state 3, p < 0.05) and heart (74% reduction in state 3, p < 0.05) mitochondria with a slight but non-significant change in liver (22% reduction in state 3, p > 0.05) mitochondria."

    https://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-7075-9-6

    LDH and LDHa work in opposition. I misunderstood the previous study I'd read, L lactate levels remain the same in blood after D knockout, but also in increasing D. The issue is that D-Lactate prevents the positive effects of L-Lactate in the heart and brain. They do compete, but for quality not quantity.
     
  19. bakhel

    bakhel

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    Ahaaaa, that confirms my suspicion :woot: Why doesn't´t high d-lactate levels get treated? I see several posta about increased d-lactate levels, but have not found anything about professional medical treatment...
     
  20. Thewonders92

    Thewonders92

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    I've seen the reason come up a few times during my research into it.

    Apparently D-Lactic Acidosis is very rare and generally occurs in those with short bowel syndrome, aside from it being rare, it's often overshadowed by L-Lactic Acidosis as the condition is generally termed Lactic Acidosis (no isomer beforehand) and L-Lactic Acidosis is far more frequently occurring.

    I believe this could be underdiagnosed though as I've found that when people ARE tested for D-Lactic Acidosis, they had to struggle with their Doctor before hand to get the test.

    As it goes, D-Lactic Acidosis will not be indicated on an L-Lactic Acidosis test (as they do not compete for space, but effect).

    Short Bowel Syndrome can be at least partially mimicked by SIBO which 80% of IBS patients reportedly have. It's my opinion anyways, that any significant gastrointestinal dysfunction could easily lead to similar symptoms or end results of SBS, I don't mean to say all or to what extent, or diminish SBS, but there are many things which would cause an overgrowth of D-Lactate bacteria, or to allow undigested carbohydrates to pass too far and ferment or be over consumed. And many conditions where intestinal permeability might increase and allow for more Lactate to enter the blood.
     
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